The Arrogance of Knowing "The Church is True"

[_wenglund]

Let me pose this question again since it has gone unanswered:

I am wondering what is motivating the need for some people to stereotype as "arrogant" an entire group of people (the LDS Church) and the beliefs that they hold? Is it love, and desire to better oneself and others? Is it intended to encourage mutual respect? Is it born of humility and an openness to other points of view?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Daniel Peterson]

I am wondering what is motivating the need for some people to stereotype as "arrogant" an entire group of people (the LDS Church) and the beliefs that they hold? Is it love, and desire to better oneself and others? Is it intended to encourage mutual respect? Is it born of humility and an openness to other points of view?

Ironically, one could answer that it's . . . arrogance.

But I would never suggest such a thing.

[_Runtu]

Ironically, one could answer that it's . . . arrogance.

But I would never suggest such a thing.

I don't think that's the case. Even though I disagree with KA in this point, I don't see her position as arrogant at all. If I were to hazard a guess, her belief is born of a lifetime of seeing arrogant disdain for the beliefs of others. I've seen it, as well, but I don't believe the underlying belief system is necessarily arrogant. But I have seen a lot of arrogance (and not just among believers).

[_Trinity]

Can't say as I would agree. If one says "hey you guys sitting up there on the hill preening because you think you are better than the rest of us...you're not! You're just like the rest of us schmucks sitting on the bottom of the hill."

How is that arrogant? They're not saying they're better. They're simply pointing out that this other group is not better either.

Best dialogue, in my opinion, is derived from the sheer fact that all of us humans are no better or worse (or smarter or more stupid, or more rich or poor) than anyone else and that we are all in a big fight for survival in this world.

[_Who Knows]

Let me pose this question again since it has gone unanswered:

You haven't gotten the hint yet?

[_Some Schmo]

Let me pose this question again since it has gone unanswered:

I am wondering what is motivating the need for some people to stereotype as "arrogant" an entire group of people (the LDS Church) and the beliefs that they hold? Is it love, and desire to better oneself and others? Is it intended to encourage mutual respect? Is it born of humility and an openness to other points of view?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Does it really seem like it? Obviously not. Why point that out?

Does pointing out that it's not motivated by those things demonstrate love, and desire to better oneself and others? Is it intended to encourage mutual respect? Is it born of humility and an openness to other points of view?

Thanks, -Some Schmo-

[cacheman]

Does it really seem like it? Obviously not. Why point that out?

Does pointing out that it's not motivated by those things demonstrate love, and desire to better oneself and others? Is it intended to encourage mutual respect? Is it born of humility and an openness to other points of view?

Thanks, -Some Schmo-

Kind of reminds me of a guy in my ward when I was growing up. He would never say, "I don't like that music," or "Turn off that TV show." He would always get a Helen Lovejoy tone to his voice and ask, sweetly, "Now, is that music likely to invite the spirit into this room?" or "Would you want the Savior to see you watching that TV show?"

Bugged the crap out of me.

So, whether it was deserved or not, I read Wade's post in that guy's voice and tone. I can't help it.

[_Canucklehead]

Let me pose this question again since it has gone unanswered:

I am wondering what is motivating the need for some people to stereotype as "arrogant" an entire group of people (the LDS Church) and the beliefs that they hold? Is it love, and desire to better oneself and others? Is it intended to encourage mutual respect? Is it born of humility and an openness to other points of view?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't want to characterise an entire group of people as arrogant. Sure, there are aspects of the LDS belief system that I see as being arrogant, but that doens't mean that the entire group of members are arrogant. There are arrogant Mormons, arrogant catholics, arrogant atheists, arrogant americans, arrogant canadians, arrogant mexicans, etc. etc. etc.

All that I ever personally claimed to be arrogant about the LDS church (meaning the organisation, not the entirety of members) is the need to tell people how to run their lives based on supposedly superior insights into the nature of the universe. Then again, that pretty much goes for all religions, now doesn't it?

I also find the exclusionary way in which temple marriages are performed to be arrogant (not that I ever personally been excluded from such a ceremony as an adult).

[_wenglund]

Although I'm positive that everyone on here is aware of this, I think that it's also important to note that the burden of proof rests with Mormonism. Mormonism makes such extraordinary claims regarding the nature of the universe, the nature of human beings, the requirements that we must all follow, etc. etc. that it is imcumbant upon the makers of those claims to back them up.

To me, the kind of work that apologists are engaged in - creating whatever space they can to maintain the plausibility of the church in spite of mountains of evidence to the contrary, just doesn't cut it. Neither do I accept that the positive emotions I felt during my teenage years amount to anything near the kind of evidence required to accept the truthfulness of the church's claims.

If someone makes such extraordinary claims about how I have to live my life, I owe it to myself to demand more than mere plausibility and warm emotions.

Okay. But, can you respect that reasonable people may rationally interpret and weight the evidence differently than you, and thus find good cause to accept the so-called extraordinary claims about how to live one's life?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

Okay. But, can you respect that reasonable people may rationally interpret and weight the evidence differently than you, and thus find good cause to accept the so-called extraordinary claims about how to live one's life?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I can.

Can you respect that others might find good (non-arrogant) reasons for believing that your belief system is arrogant?