Why I left the LDS Church (Warning: *LONG*)

[_msnobody]

I was/am awestruck at how beautiful she was/is. My avatar really doesn't do her justice. Luckily my senior at the time was Japanese, so he could tell me who she was: Yasuko Sawaguchi, model and actress.

The Japenese for the most part are an attractive race of people. Now, back to our regular programming.

[_friggs]

Nimrod,



One year later from my first known spiritual experience I was reading about a story how a person was commissioned by the government of his country to beat up and kill Christians when a miracle, unseen physical presence keep him from carrying out this act. This event in his life had as profound an impact on him as it did on Paul of the New Testament. Again this same Spirit of the Holy Ghost came to me from out side my body and filled my soul from the head to my feet. Again this was not some tear jerker moment or some normal human feeling that the anti’s like to mock as following your feelings. This day I knew Jesus Christ was the Son of God. I did not put two and two together from my first experience but I started to seek out God in religious classes and had this over whelming desire to be baptized and came close to asking my philosophy/ theology professor to baptize me. I have talked with many Christians and many have described this same feeling to me as when they go forward to except Jesus and be forgiven of sins or be baptized. Many have said that this was their only experience and some have expressed other such spirit filled experiences in their lives.



One year later I ran into the Mormons and when I was taught about the first vision (not sure which of the many versions) and the Book of Mormon (not sure if it was the one with all the errors or the corrected one) I again felt this same spirit and a deep burning in my chest. The elderly couple that taught me also talked of some of the anti-information I might run into and when they did this it brought about a very dark powerful feeling that I had felt before in my life. Even then when they were talking about it the thoughts came to my mind of “what did I get myself into” with this cult? You know the whole cult thing the Mormons have going. It is not always easy to understand or interpret what is being conveyed and it may take a life time to come to an understanding, but again you go to God and ask what is up then the peace returns. This is so that no matter what is said about Joseph Smith or the LDS Church, regardless that some of the anti-Mormon charges might have some true this is Heavenly Fathers and His Son Jesus Christ’s Church now. Just as if we lived in the Old Testament or Book of Mormon times these were Gods people and regardless of how bad or evil apostate they were or we may become this is His work. No matter what, if we do not give up on Him He will not give up on us.



This burning of the bosom! With in a couple of years I was on a mission in Utah and like Dr. Shades this was some of the greatest times and the most disappointing times discovering how Mormons treat each other and like a mission friend of mine, that is now a Stake President said about the leadership, “Well it is about 90% politics and 10% inspiration.” The burning! When I was studying with this Elder our zone leaders came by and as soon as they came through the door they stated that Present Kimball had just announced that all worthy male members could obtain the priesthood. My companion made the statement that he thought that the zone leaders were just kidding when I thought my chest was going to explode. I was thrown to my feet by the spirit and I ran around saying “I know it is true. I know it is true. I can feel it. I feel it is true.” I knew before from the spirit that there is a prophet and he is the head of the church but now I knew they did obtain revelation. Are they human? If we knew everything about them most of the good members would leave. But after all the stupid things I have done God has not abandon me so I have to give them a break. I also have had some of the same experiences as Nightlion but I don’t care if all the 12 stood up today and said they have documents that show the whole thing is false or that the LDS leaders were found in some Catholic like scandals I know that Joseph Smith’s story is true. Isaiah and our own early leaders said that the church leaders and members will fall into apostasy and it probably started with Joseph Smith because they are human. The missionaries on my mission there were a lot of converts and many just made the cut off age to go on a mission as well a lot of those that were sent back from the foreign missions. But because many were older and converts many came with stories of how they were converted by dreams, visions and the Holy Spirit. We all learned very quickly that it was a bad idea to talk about these things as members were not very gracious about accepting such talk. Most of the missionary converts were men dealing with young men from members’ homes that were BOC did not always have a testimony. I found a range of some members that claimed that the spirit would tell them when and how to plant, grow, pick, eat, evacuate produce from the garden to those that said they had never had a spiritual experience their whole life. I don’t question anyone after my many spiritual experiences.

[_karl61]

friggs: wrote: "Isaiah and our own early leaders said that the church leaders and members will fall into apostasy and it probably started with Joseph Smith because they are human."

friggs: can you show me anywhere in Isaiah where he was writing about the Mormon Church. You might first need to read the whole chapter, the one before it and the one after it and not just a verse or verses.

[_Nimrod]

Nimrod,



One year later from my first known spiritual experience I was reading about a story how a person was commissioned by the government of his country to beat up and kill Christians when a miracle, unseen physical presence keep him from carrying out this act. This event in his life had as profound an impact on him as it did on Paul of the New Testament. Again this same Spirit of the Holy Ghost came to me from out side my body and filled my soul from the head to my feet. Again this was not some tear jerker moment or some normal human feeling that the anti’s like to mock as following your feelings. This day I knew Jesus Christ was the Son of God. I did not put two and two together from my first experience but I started to seek out God in religious classes and had this over whelming desire to be baptized and came close to asking my philosophy/ theology professor to baptize me. I have talked with many Christians and many have described this same feeling to me as when they go forward to except Jesus and be forgiven of sins or be baptized. Many have said that this was their only experience and some have expressed other such spirit filled experiences in their lives.



One year later I ran into the Mormons and when I was taught about the first vision (not sure which of the many versions) and the Book of Mormon (not sure if it was the one with all the errors or the corrected one) I again felt this same spirit and a deep burning in my chest. The elderly couple that taught me also talked of some of the anti-information I might run into and when they did this it brought about a very dark powerful feeling that I had felt before in my life. Even then when they were talking about it the thoughts came to my mind of “what did I get myself into” with this cult? You know the whole cult thing the Mormons have going. It is not always easy to understand or interpret what is being conveyed and it may take a life time to come to an understanding, but again you go to God and ask what is up then the peace returns. This is so that no matter what is said about Joseph Smith or the LDS Church, regardless that some of the anti-Mormon charges might have some true this is Heavenly Fathers and His Son Jesus Christ’s Church now. Just as if we lived in the Old Testament or Book of Mormon times these were Gods people and regardless of how bad or evil apostate they were or we may become this is His work. No matter what, if we do not give up on Him He will not give up on us.



This burning of the bosom! With in a couple of years I was on a mission in Utah and like Dr. Shades this was some of the greatest times and the most disappointing times discovering how Mormons treat each other and like a mission friend of mine, that is now a Stake President said about the leadership, “Well it is about 90% politics and 10% inspiration.” The burning! When I was studying with this Elder our zone leaders came by and as soon as they came through the door they stated that Present Kimball had just announced that all worthy male members could obtain the priesthood. My companion made the statement that he thought that the zone leaders were just kidding when I thought my chest was going to explode. I was thrown to my feet by the spirit and I ran around saying “I know it is true. I know it is true. I can feel it. I feel it is true.” I knew before from the spirit that there is a prophet and he is the head of the church but now I knew they did obtain revelation. Are they human? If we knew everything about them most of the good members would leave. But after all the stupid things I have done God has not abandon me so I have to give them a break. I also have had some of the same experiences as Nightlion but I don’t care if all the 12 stood up today and said they have documents that show the whole thing is false or that the LDS leaders were found in some Catholic like scandals I know that Joseph Smith’s story is true. Isaiah and our own early leaders said that the church leaders and members will fall into apostasy and it probably started with Joseph Smith because they are human. The missionaries on my mission there were a lot of converts and many just made the cut off age to go on a mission as well a lot of those that were sent back from the foreign missions. But because many were older and converts many came with stories of how they were converted by dreams, visions and the Holy Spirit. We all learned very quickly that it was a bad idea to talk about these things as members were not very gracious about accepting such talk. Most of the missionary converts were men dealing with young men from members’ homes that were BOC did not always have a testimony. I found a range of some members that claimed that the spirit would tell them when and how to plant, grow, pick, eat, evacuate produce from the garden to those that said they had never had a spiritual experience their whole life. I don’t question anyone after my many spiritual experiences.

Thanks, Friggs, for recounting that with us here on the board.

[_friggs]

karl61,

The quick answer is I for the most part use Avraham Gileadi's commentary from Isaiah explained and can found at http://www.isaiahexplained.com/isaiah_ch_1.html. Or Google it under Isaiah explained If I get time I will give a longer explanation when I answer Nimrod's questions. Basically he says that Isaiah is about 90% an address to us the LDS church members and leaders and the United States.

[_harmony]

karl61,

The quick answer is I for the most part use Avraham Gileadi's commentary from Isaiah explained and can found at http://www.isaiahexplained.com/isaiah_ch_1.html. Or Google it under Isaiah explained If I get time I will give a longer explanation when I answer Nimrod's questions. Basically he says that Isaiah is about 90% an address to us the LDS church members and leaders and the United States.

In other words, you rely on a man to think for you. Ever tried to think for yourself?

[_friggs]

karl61,

Here are some of the scriptures that some say relate to the church and the leaders in the last days. I don't need Isaiah because as I said that early LDS leaders make many statements about the apostasy in the church just before the coming of Christ as a purging. Apostasy takes place in many forms and sometimes even the leaders are subject to it. I don't need to go into details but just see how many leaders have had trouble and these are only the problems we know about. I do not think the leadership or the members are in a state of apostasy now and I still receive a witness of the Holy Spirit when President Thomas S. Monson adresses the church and the world. Nor do I think Avarham Gileadi is the final or only word on what Isaiah is trying to get across to us in these final days. However, I have for the first time in my 33 years in the church have been getting a witness of the Holy Spirit of events of the last days from early and present day LDS leaders about the times we are in and have been lead to study Avraham Gileadi. I do not know what time frame we are in anymore than anyone else does other than for personal use.

Isaiah 29:9-10, 13, 14
1:2-5
1:16-17, 21-23, 25, 27
3:14-15
42:22-25

harmony,

You bed wetting punk. Everything we first learn we have detrimental reliance or beneficial reliance baised on matters we can not always prove because we do not have the resources to prove 100% the pro or and anti Mormon history or doctrines of the LDS church. Thus we fall back to God and a confirmation of the Holy Spirit for the truth. With less than this we are left to make our best guess or follow others. So when you get your head back from the crainal anal inversion and you clear your head you ... blah... blah... etc. etc. You know the rest.

[_Blixa]

harmony,

You bed wetting punk. Everything we first learn we have detrimental reliance or beneficial reliance baised on matters we can not always prove because we do not have the resources to prove 100% the pro or and anti Mormon history or doctrines of the LDS church. Thus we fall back to God and a confirmation of the Holy Spirit for the truth. With less than this we are left to make our best guess or follow others. So when you get your head back from the crainal anal inversion and you clear your head you ... blah... blah... etc. etc. You know the rest.

That was an unseemly response, friggs. I don't think harmony's point was all that rude. Considering that you had just referenced your many spiritual experiences from which you derive knowledge, it did seem odd that you would so quickly "lean on the arm of man."

And while I know you are new here and don't know all of us yet, it's not very nice to refer to a mature woman with decades of experience on Mormon discussion boards as a "bed wetting punk."

[_friggs]

blixa, or harmony,

I agree I did over state my case but I thought I was on a hard case anti-Mormon site and I confess I like sarcastic, funny, rude comments. If I hurt your feelings I apologize but my comments are directed to the comments not the person which is illogical because I don't know you. I thought I might be addressing a sudonym of the dark lord or one of his posse. By the way he is not the dark lord, I have met the dark lord and he and his posse does not hold a candle to him. Besides I just read a paper where it is possible that we are nothing but holograms, which can now be made solid and projected into infinite directions of outer space and only your brain waves are here to experience lifes events. So stop being such a baby with those feelings and if you are not a baby and are a mature woman please give a full description of your person but I suppose that defeats the need for sudonyms. Besides I am
a two time loser with divorce, I am short, fat, bald, had a botched sex change operation and on a good day I make Marty Feldman look like a
tasty bite.

Now back to the LDS church being in a latter day apostasy, you might check out http://ldsremnant.com/content/category/4/14/33/]
The Apostasy of the Latter Days, by H. Verlan Andersen, under Truth Works or Remnant Readings on Google. The only thing is he just refers to members not the leaders of the church. But then why would he, he is one of them. I think this is one of the reasons why Avraham Gileadi
got into so much trouble is his translation and explanation of Isaiah was a direct indictment against the leaders of the church and his idea of a Davidic King/Prophet coming from outside the church to take the members of the church back to build the New Jerusalem. He would not budge on the translation or the explaination he arrived at. In other words he was not willing to lie for the lord and they are. Yes I have read all the internet stuff and some that say know the case personally but this is just my conclusion.

[_Blixa]

blixa, or harmony,

I agree I did over state my case but I thought I was on a hard case anti-Mormon site and I confess I like sarcastic, funny, rude comments. If I hurt your feelings I apologize but my comments are directed to the comments not the person which is illogical because I don't know you. I thought I might be addressing a sudonym of the dark lord or one of his posse. By the way he is not the dark lord, I have met the dark lord and he and his posse does not hold a candle to him. Besides I just read a paper where it is possible that we are nothing but holograms, which can now be made solid and projected into infinite directions of outer space and only your brain waves are here to experience lifes events. So stop being such a baby with those feelings and if you are not a baby and are a mature woman please give a full description of your person but I suppose that defeats the need for sudonyms.

Well, you know, people can use pseudonyms and still mention details about their lives. Knowing these things about board members, though, means having participated in board discussions for a length of time, or realizing that a new member needs to take some time to become acquainted with the personalities and discussions that have preceded his/her participation. I'm just advising you to take some time to learn about the discursive "style" of things here before you jump in with all guns blazing.

But whatever. No skin off my nose.

I don't really think of this place as "hard case anti-mormon site," though, partly because there is a mix of people here with different past and current relationships to the LDS church. I find that interesting, but my interests may not be yours, of course.