Why LDS Mormons are not Christian.

[_Jersey Girl]

cherry picking this

Are you saying that Mormonism is nonChristian, but Mormons may be Christians? How could that be, if they believe in Mormonism?

beastie,

That you don't understand how that could be, tells me that you are arguing against a belief "system" that you don't understand: Christianity.

Christians believe in the power of God/Spirit/Christ to access and reveal him/itself to any person where they are.

Whether they are in the Mormon church, Protestant Church, the forest or in a bar.

That's how.

[Tator]

No. Where did I say that?

That's why I asked if that is what you were saying when you identified pagan influences as one reason Mormonism is not Christian.

So we agree there are pagan influences in mainstream Christianity, as well, so why does pagan influences in Mormonism disqualify it as christian?

beastie...no. I didn't say that, did I? When I say it, then take exception to it.

My "no" had to do with your former priests belief that Jesus was "made divine" or "made God's son" via his behavior or what have you.

Christian's believe that Jesus was ALWAYS God's son and ALWAYS divine.

Only according to the Nicene counsel. What makes someone the "right" kind of theological Christian? The Nicene Creed?

So, let me get this straight. In every other way, my Episcopalian priest toed the line. He believed Jesus was divine, he believed Jesus's atonement was the manner through which we obtained salvation - but because he believed that Jesus became God's son in some supernatural and divine fashion OTHER than through the Virgin Birth, which may have meant he BECAME God's son in some way, he can't qualify as a Christian?

Scholars can't even identify Jesus's own teachings because statements attributed to him were not recorded for many years after his death. Early Christianity was divided in determining Jesus's nature until the Nicene counsel - and yet the issue is clear-cut enough that particular Christians feel justified declaring that one must believe in particular details to be considered a real Christian?

So does God give some sort of quiz before letting people into Heaven?

Do you believe that Mormons who strictly adhere to their own theology will be accepted into Heaven? Will a Mormon who believes that Jesus is the Christ, and accepts Jesus as his/her savior, but believes in LDS eternal progression, get into Heaven?

I'd like all the Christians on this thread to answer that question. What is the significance of being a "real" christian? Is it the only way to get to heaven?

That you don't understand how that could be, tells me that you are arguing against a belief "system" that you don't understand: Christianity.

Christians believe in the power of God/Spirit/Christ to access any person where they are.

Whether they are in the Mormon church, Protestant Church, the forest or in a bar.

Talk about putting words in people's mouths! I did understand how that could be. I asked because I wanted to know what YOU thought. See above. I wanted to establish this baseline before asking: can a Mormon who accepts Jesus as his/her savior, but also believes in the theology of Mormonism be considered a Christian?

[_Ray A]

Christians believe in the power of God/Spirit/Christ to access and reveal him/itself to any person where they are.

So theoretically Gandhi may have been a Christian? He did include Christianity of the multi-religions he "belonged to" when asked what he believed.

If the power of that Spirit revealed itself, again for example, to Gandhi (whether or not he recognised it as such), what would that tell us? That Gandhi was, in fact, as much Christian as Christians themselves? If not in profession, certainly in actions (behaviour)?

[_msnobody]

Post deleted. Arrived to thead late.

[_huckelberry]

There may be a variety of reasons a person may want to categorize beliefs. Different purposes would likely result in different groupings with a word like Christian which might apply to billions of different people.

I believe the only basis for salvation is Jesus. I see no reason to believe only Christians are thereby saved. Jesus called people to be a help to others not for others to be stepping stones in a race to be first in line to heaven .

[_EAllusion]

I accept that Christianity is a type of Judaism in the same what that birds are a type of dinosaur. If there was good precedent for Christians continuing to call themselves Jews from their development into now, I'd have absolutely no problem with them being Jews in common parlance.

[_EAllusion]

Besides, the religious beliefs and practices of a modern reform Jew living in New York today compared to the religious beliefs and practices going on in Palastine circa 50 B.C. aren't exactly two peas in a pod.

[_beastie]

There may be a variety of reasons a person may want to categorize beliefs. Different purposes would likely result in different groupings with a word like Christian which might apply to billions of different people.

I believe the only basis for salvation is Jesus. I see no reason to believe only Christians are thereby saved. Jesus called people to be a help to others not for others to be stepping stones in a race to be first in line to heaven .

This is what I believed when I was still a Christian, after leaving Mormonism. I simply could not believe that a God of love - which was the God I believed in - would ban people from his presence for believing in the "wrong" theology. While I rejected Mormonism, I never could reject them as Christians. I know I considered myself a Christian when I was LDS, and I believed in Jesus as my savior as much as the folks here who think my theology prevented me from being a Christian.

I do admit to having a personal investment in this issue. I have beloved family members who are devout Mormons, believe in Mormon doctrine and teachings, and consider themselves Christians - as do I. Of course, as an atheist, I don't think being a Christian has the same significance as they do, but it is very important to them, and the idea of some Christian declaring that my family cannot rightfully call themselves Christian because they happen to believe in the "wrong" theology offends me as much as when Mormons declare that I won't be with my family in the next life because I don't' believe in the "right" theology.

EA

Besides, the religious beliefs and practices of a modern reform Jew living in New York today compared to the religious beliefs and practices going on in Palastine circa 50 B.C. aren't exactly two peas in a pod.

Exactly. Nor are the religious beliefs and practices of a modern mainstream Christians the exact same set of beliefs and practices that were practiced by the earliest Christians. Moreover, there were theological disputes then, too.

[_richardMdBorn]

The other point about whether or not Mormonism is Christian is the Book of Mormon itself. Remember, in spite of all the post-1830 doctrines, the Book of Mormon is the "Keystone" of Mormonism (and it seems to be gradually going back to that position since 1985 and E.T.Benson's emphasis on it).

Have the Evs and other fundamentalists defined the Book of Mormon as "non-Christian"?

Most Evs don't consider themselves to be fundamentalists.

[_Calculus Crusader]

Catholicism is the ROOT of all other Christian religions. How can ANY religion be Christian if the ROOT is not Christian????

This is a myth of the RCC that Mormonism finds useful. The various Eastern Churches are just as ancient and they would say the RCC broke away from them.

Incidentally, I consider the RCC Christian, despite their sundry errors.