stemelbow wrote:I know you were speaking to Zee and wish to hear from him but in the meantime I'd just like to say, I disagree with Zee. Indeed, i think te First Vision is more important to Mormonism than the Mel priesthood restoration event. But both are very much an important and essential piece to it all.
And, I think you'll find most LDS would agree that the First Vision stands ahead of the M. Priesthood restoration even in matter of importance--if essential pieces should be ranked like that.
The first vision wasn't really important until it was dredged up after the Adam-God fiasco as a way of discrediting that doctrine. It was emphasized as important ever since, but it wasn't important to LDS faith for a long time.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Some Schmo wrote:I was surprised by zeez's comment too, actually. I mean, calling BS on the first vision story was the beginnings of my doubt at the age of 10 or so. If Joseph Smith lied about that, why should anyone believe anything that came after that?
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It is an awfully big IF. Isn't it amazing the LDS church has survived this long. Reading the threads on this board I would have assumed that the LDS church would have folded in 1845. But here it is, still strong and moving forward. But then, if one wants to find something to fault, it is always possible. No organization is perfect. At the end of the day, we will all find out the truth when we die.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Buffalo wrote:The first vision wasn't really important until it was dredged up after the Adam-God fiasco as a way of discrediting that doctrine. It was emphasized as important ever since, but it wasn't important to LDS faith for a long time.
Not exactly true. The first vision laid the foundation of the LDS church. Now of course, what became more important was the revealing of the Book of Mormon and what came after. In that regard, the first vision took a back seat. But without that first vision there would be no church.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
zeezrom wrote:What foundation do the two events bring to the religion?
Perhaps I am not the best person to ask but I would suggest the following:
Without the First Vision- Mormonism does not exist (in my opinion) Without the Priesthood keys "restored"- I am of the opinion that Mormonism still exists (maybe just not as "special")
First Vision: without this, we still believe exactly the same things. This is just a warm, fuzzy experience. Peter, James, and John: The priesthood keys are restored to the earth. Without the keys, the world lives in apostasy. There might as well be no church at all.
in my opinion, this is a huge issue. According to Mormon belief, restoration of the power of God is bigger than anything that has ever happened to the human race.
Buffalo wrote:The first vision wasn't really important until it was dredged up after the Adam-God fiasco as a way of discrediting that doctrine. It was emphasized as important ever since, but it wasn't important to LDS faith for a long time.
Cool. Any references?
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
My concern is more about the conflict in the testimonies. The First Vision took it's toll on my testimony as well. I soon realized that never happened but oh well. That is just the measly First Vision. That is not really central to Mormonism. The restoration of the Mel Priesthood is the center of the Universe. There is nothing more important. I had no idea that Oliver testified something different than the story I grew up with.
Man, all those times I sat in people's houses with my flip chart telling them how great it was that God restored the priesthood keys to the earth. That was the whole reason for being Mormon! We had the keys and they didn't! Amazing.
Buffalo wrote:The odds aren't against you making a living and being happy. Most Americans do the same.
Maybe. Except that many americans have lost their job and their home. And are most likely not too happy.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote:It is an awfully big IF. Isn't it amazing the LDS church has survived this long. Reading the threads on this board I would have assumed that the LDS church would have folded in 1845. But here it is, still strong and moving forward. But then, if one wants to find something to fault, it is always possible. No organization is perfect. At the end of the day, we will all find out the truth when we die.
No, we will never find out the truth. When we die we stop thinking because our brains die. No thought is possible without a functioning brain.
Nature is kind. You'll never discover how wrong you were.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.