Guilt and Denial

[_stemelbow]

It's a little discouraging to me how this has played out in this thread. I've been told over and over that I'm the exception, that Mormons generally don't feel the same guilt I did. Now I find out that, statistically speaking, I'm not alone, and what do I get?

I did not ever say at all that Mormons generally don't feel the same guilt you did. That is just not true. I acknowledged guilt plays a role in LDS teaching. indeed, I'm still wondering why guilt is seen as so bad by you, or at least it seems you are saying that.

I'm being deceptive,

I ended up chalking it up to miscommunication. Sorry if your feelings were hurt on this. seriously.

guilt is good,

You seemed to have acknowledged that guilt has its place. What's wrong here?

I'm calling elders liars and masturbators, and so on.

Well, why did you assume there are elders in my ward who are masturbators and that they would lie about it? I certainly didn't say this.

Finding out I am not alone in being burdened with guilt is important to me, and I'm trying to understand why we feel the guilt. I appreciate you talking about why instead of simply dismissing what I think and feel.

I didn't dismiss your feelings. I did take exception to the way you have dogmatically defined LDS teaching. Guilt is not emphasized moreso than grace and grace is not radically de-emphasized even in light of traditional Christian teaching. I took issue with that...not that you have felt guilt at all.

[_just me]

Well, according to one of the Ensign Q&A thingy's, people who feel guilt even after they have repented (and your bishop can tell you if you did it properly) it is because they have a low self-esteem.

So, why do so many LDS have low self-esteem?

[_stemelbow]

I think this is the problem here: You see this thread as an attack on the church, whereas I am trying to understand where the guilt comes from. Not your guilt, but mine, which apparently a lot of Mormons feel, if the study is correct (and I don't see a reason to believe otherwise).

I'm not interested in scoring points, whether they "backfire" or not. I'm trying to understand something that has played a huge role in my life. If that offends you, I am sorry.

I have no qualms about how you feel and what you are trying to get out of this. I merely took issue with the way you have characterized the teachings. Indeed, it doesn't make sense to me in the least.

I grant that you have felt guilty as an LDS person and it played a huge role in your life. That doesn't offend me in the least.

[_Buffalo]

I didn't dismiss your feelings. I did take exception to the way you have dogmatically defined LDS teaching. Guilt is not emphasized moreso than grace and grace is not radically de-emphasized even in light of traditional Christian teaching. I took issue with that...not that you have felt guilt at all.

Stem - why do you think Mormons feel more guilt than any other group in America? Should Mormons feel more guilty than everyone else?

[_just me]

For me, it goes back to the emphisis on perfection. I was always striving for it, praying for it, always falling short of it. So I felt like crap.

There is also the issue of wanting love and acceptance. Falling short can mean rejection. As we know from GC talks, god's love is conditional on our obedience.

We want to be perfect, but we fail. We're big failures and god won't love us.

[_stemelbow]

Well, according to one of the Ensign Q&A thingy's, people who feel guilt even after they have repented (and your bishop can tell you if you did it properly) it is because they have a low self-esteem.

So, why do so many LDS have low self-esteem?

There's no one answer to that. People have low self-esteem for a number of reasons and its not unique to LDS. I don't even know if more LDS have low self-esteem per capita than others.

[_Drifting]

I think guilt is an overused whip in the Church.

Nearly every single Sacrament talk and every single lesson and for that matter, every single Conference talk, is geared to ensuring members feel they should be doing better than they are.

People prone to low self esteem and similar challenges will only have their feelings accentuated by this weekly diet of the "you're not doing enough, do more" mantra.

[_Jason Bourne]

Mormonism lays a triple whammy on people. First, it lays down extremely strict and numerous rules for people the follow. Second, it radically de-emphasizes any conception of grace. Third, it actually separates forgiveness by God from forgiveness by the church. Ironically, the former is generally easier to come by than the latter. Put these together and you have a major problem with guilt and shame.

Now this does have some positive benefits. Mormon youth tend to be marginally more active in church and marginally less sexually promiscuous than the average conservative Christian (which would be the most similar demographic for comparative purposes). But the key word is marginally. I don't remember the statistics but if I remember right it was only a difference of 10-15 percentage points between the two groups. I guess something is better than nothing, but at what cost?

QFT

[_asbestosman]

We can attempt it, but no one lives the commandments perfectly, except Jesus. That's the whole point of the Atonement. If you can read the Bible without seeing God's mercy, I really don't know what to say to you.

And yet some (here) read the Bible and only see (simplistically) God's cruelty. They seem to be given a free pass.

I guess it depends on the extent of the cruelty. Nobody is going to be too impressed with a philanthropist who tortures thousands of women even if that philanthropist helps cure cancer, provides food and shelter for poor children, and builds several Christian churches.

[_asbestosman]

why do you think Mormons feel more guilt than any other group in America?

Maybe it's for their part in California's proposition 8?