RIP Christopher Hitchens

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_RayAgostini

Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens

Post by _RayAgostini »

Sethbag wrote:Just for the record, and because Pahoran asked in a semi-civil tone for me to do so, I'd like to point out that DCP did not start a thread over at the other board to make merry over Hitchens' death. He started a thread entitled "Christopher Hitchens RIP" or something like that and a moderator merged it with another Hitchens thread with a title that envisioned Hitchens receiving his Celestial comeuppance. In fairness, DCP's initial post did include "I trust that he's already had a very, very big surprise, and I wish him well." DCP's other posts were critical of Hitchens' "God is Not Great" book, but were otherwise more complimentary of Hitchens than one might expect.

Oh, and DCP is not a goon. That is all. :-)


One thing I have to say about you is that you really try to be fair. I think you should keep posting on MDDB too.

Okay, my moment of flattery is done, and I'm off shopping soon.
_Sethbag
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Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens

Post by _Sethbag »

I don't know. We'll see. The posts in the Hitchens thread were the first posts of mine on that board in like 4 or 5 years. I'm pretty sure the only other thread I've posted to was the Smithmas one.

Some of the absurdity over there was just driving me insane, and I don't know if I have it in me to become a regular over there again.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
_RayAgostini

Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens

Post by _RayAgostini »

Sethbag wrote:
Some of the absurdity over there was just driving me insane, and I don't know if I have it in me to become a regular over there again.


To be frank, it's mostly a chore for me to read, too, though occasionally an interesting thread does catch my eye.
_Gadianton
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Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens

Post by _Gadianton »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Overwhelmingly, they are using the occasion of Hitchens's death to berate him for being a "moron" who was too dumb to realize that God exists.


The LDS apologists part ways here with their would-be brothers of Biblical Christianity. Thanks to Sethbag's post, I knew Hitchens had died, but for whatever reasons, I didn't investigate the circumstances and discussions about it online until I heard him mentioned in a prayer on the Calvary Chapel radio station. The deep regret expressed was as sincere as a prayer accompanied by piano music can be. The positive sentiments I've been reading now, beginning with the article CKS linked to in this thread, suggest that Christianity is feeling a material loss at Hitchens's passing, one that goes beyond returning injury with kindness. Many Christians appear to have held Hitchens in esteem, and some even express concern that he's been held in too much esteem.

Why is this? I don't think it's all holiday cheer. I believe that Hitchens really was loved by Christianity, which is something I would not have ever considered to be the case had it not been spelled out by others in these random online articles I'm reading, but it makes perfect sense in hindsight. Hitchens played a leading role, earnest and unwittingly, in an hokey drama. Hitchens wasn't the enemy, he was the heel. He was Jake The Snake Roberts or Jesse "The Body" Ventura. He was stylish and arrogant, hungry to battle anyone and everyone who loves God under a spotlight. He'd cheat and get caught, blaspheme openly, and flaunt his sins. He became a caricature of the devil that speaks with a silver tongue, the villain Christians loved to hate so much that they loved him. And after the show was over, no one had really got hurt. He played his part in a religious climate that is forced to compete with TV and whatever else it accomplishes, Christianity today, must entertain.

There are many atheists out there, but few if any like Hitchens. It was noted by my colleague EA in this thread that Hitchens wrote a substantial piece of journalism condemning Mother Theresa. To me, the most interesting part of that story is that as I understand it, Hitchens was summoned by the Pope to testify against Mother Theresa at the Vatican. To become a Saint, the Church had to bring objections -- to make the decision fair -- and as this would be suicide for any priest to do, they called upon Christopher Hitchens to do it. No atheist who lives today will ever have a story that tops this one. You can just see a hungover and unkept Hitchens stumbling before the Holy See with utter disrespect to bear witness against the Church's most dear woman next to Mary.

I used to watch Hitchens on Joe Scarborough's show. He'd play the devil's advocate on matters Christians would be most sensitive about and it's clear to me Joe would lob him slow balls to get the best insensitive atheist reactions possible from Hitchens. Joe would then get himself riled up and overreact, and like Hacksaw Jim Duggan waving the American flag, come to the defense of old-fashioned Christian values. One time the gig worked out so well that Joe permanently disinvited Hitchens from the show (I'm sure that got him some ratings). Of course, back then I realized the rivalry between Hitchens and Christian America was mutually beneficial, but I'll admit I didn't predict the extent to which this apparently was so.
_Sethbag
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Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens

Post by _Sethbag »

Gadianton, that was a very interesting post, and I thank you for making it! I'm convinced you're on to something. Hitchens gave a lot of Christians the platform to say their piece, by agreeing to debate with them. Without Hitchens around now, it'll be harder for some of these folks to get their opinions heard.

I watched a debate between Hitchens and Tony Blair, and I couldn't figure out who was more pleased, Hitchens for getting to debate Tony Blair, or Tony Blair for getting to debate Hitchens. They both seemed to feel it was a great honor to be debating the other.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
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