The Light of Christ

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
Posts: 4559
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am

Re: The Light of Christ

Post by _huckelberry »

Tobin wrote:It is only awkward for some here. I maintain it was man-made doctrine and it was evil and the Church should apologize for it.

Tobin, I agree it was wrong and man made. I think being cliear about it being wrong and teaching that it was wrong would be better than an apology. I do not expect the LDS authorities are prepared to teach that they were wrong . It might modify their authority.

though it may be a pill less bitter swallowed than feared.
Last edited by Guest on Sat May 05, 2012 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Tobin
_Emeritus
Posts: 8417
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: The Light of Christ

Post by _Tobin »

huckelberry wrote:
Tobin wrote:It is only awkward for some here. I maintain it was man-made doctrine and it was evil and the Church should apologize for it.

Tobin, I agree it was wrong and man made. I think being cliear about it being wrong and teaching that it was wrong would be better than an apology. I do not expect the LDS authorities are prepared to teach that they were wrong . It might modify their authority.

though it may be a pill less bitter swallowed rather than feared.
I don't think the current leadership are relevant any longer. They have been in a state of decay for a while and are mostly out of touch. The clearest indication to me that this is true is they no longer prophecy, see, or reveal any thing. How can one claim to be a prophet, seer, and revelator and not be able to recognize and deal honestly with matters like this? I do not believe that is possible and have any hope of maintaining such a claim.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
Posts: 4559
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am

Re: The Light of Christ

Post by _huckelberry »

Tobin, I am probably not the person to persue your view with for a Mormon context. I have long been Protestant and view the light of Christ as prophetic inspiration to a broad base of believers not special authorities . I think that broad base gives openings to change past mistakes.
_gdemetz
_Emeritus
Posts: 1681
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:59 pm

Re: The Light of Christ

Post by _gdemetz »

Thews, you never gave me a good answer concerning my pointed comparison. Do you think Christ was a racists for ignoring the gentiles and calling them dogs (little dogs)?!? I'll answer that for you. He was no more a racists than the modern prophets were and are. They were all guided by the same Spirit!
_Hades
_Emeritus
Posts: 859
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:27 am

Re: The Light of Christ

Post by _Hades »

gdemetz wrote:Thews, you never gave me a good answer concerning my pointed comparison. Do you think Christ was a racists for ignoring the gentiles and calling them dogs (little dogs)?!? I'll answer that for you. He was no more a racists than the modern prophets were and are. They were all guided by the same Spirit!

How telling.
I'm the apostate your bishop warned you about.
_thews
_Emeritus
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:26 pm

Re: The Light of Christ

Post by _thews »

gdemetz wrote:Thews, you never gave me a good answer concerning my pointed comparison.

I listed numerous facts I knew you wouldn't acknowledge, which you didn't, and now you're asking for comments on a parallel analogy? How about you put your money where your mouth is a quit the lame attempt at diversion? I've posted data that shows the curse of Cain was skin color, and all you've come back with is the lame diversions that have been spoon fed to you. You don't know the truth, you don't care about the truth, and if you were intellectually honest with yourself you'd admit that Mormon doctrine is racist and always has been. This is why the priesthood ban was in place for 150 years. LDS who attempt to claim it never existed must then have to explain why there was a change in 1978... the rabbit holes only run so deep before this fact thwarts the distortion of the truth.

gdemetz wrote: Do you think Christ was a racists for ignoring the gentiles and calling them dogs (little dogs)?!? I'll answer that for you. He was no more a racists than the modern prophets were and are. They were all guided by the same Spirit!

Let's use factual data to define a true racist, and according to your beliefs, a prophet of the LDS God:

http://mormonthink.com/blackweb.htm
Brigham Young

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.)

You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, un- comely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race - that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree. How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, [p.291] and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam's children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion. - (Journal of Discourses 7:290-291, October 9, 1859)

"You may inquire of the intelligent of the world whether they can tell why the aborigines of this country are dark, loathsome, ignorant, and sunken into the depths of degradation ...When the Lord has a people, he makes covenants with them and gives unto them promises: then, if they transgress his law, change his ordinances, and break his covenants he has made with them, he will put a mark upon them, as in the case of the Lamanites and other portions of the house of Israel; but by-and-by they will become a white and delightsome people" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:336).


Care to comment on your LDS prophet of God?
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.
2 Tim 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth & turn aside to myths
_madeleine
_Emeritus
Posts: 2476
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 6:03 am

Re: The Light of Christ

Post by _madeleine »

Delineating people by race is an invention of humans, c. the 17th century. Certainly it is not a revealed truth of which religious doctrines should be mounted to.
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
Posts: 4559
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am

Re: The Light of Christ

Post by _huckelberry »

gdemetz wrote:Thews, you never gave me a good answer concerning my pointed comparison. Do you think Christ was a racists for ignoring the gentiles and calling them dogs (little dogs)?!? I'll answer that for you. He was no more a racists than the modern prophets were and are. They were all guided by the same Spirit!


The sentiment here I am in favor of. I do not think Jesus was a racist. My reasons would be that I see Jesus sending his entire gospel to all people and offering respect to all people.
_thews
_Emeritus
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:26 pm

Re: The Light of Christ

Post by _thews »

huckelberry wrote:
gdemetz wrote:Thews, you never gave me a good answer concerning my pointed comparison. Do you think Christ was a racists for ignoring the gentiles and calling them dogs (little dogs)?!? I'll answer that for you. He was no more a racists than the modern prophets were and are. They were all guided by the same Spirit!


The sentiment here I am in favor of.

?

huckelberry wrote: I do not think Jesus was a racist.

What does Jesus Christ have to do with racist Mormon doctrine?

huckelberry wrote: My reasons would be that I see Jesus sending his entire gospel to all people and offering respect to all people.

?... I fail to understand your point.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.
2 Tim 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth & turn aside to myths
_huckelberry
_Emeritus
Posts: 4559
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:29 am

Re: The Light of Christ

Post by _huckelberry »

thews wrote:What does Jesus Christ have to do with racist Mormon doctrine?

nothing
Post Reply