Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

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Kishkumen
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Re: Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

Post by Kishkumen »

sock puppet wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:40 pm
I agree. I also like what Jon Stewart has to say about "Wokeism"--until he got labeled as "woke" he just thought he was really good at history. "Woke" is simply the disparaging word du jour by one of the extremes (this time, the far right). Dig just beyond the surface and it is merely a disparagement of previously obscured or overlooked facts of history coming to light and informing us. It is a term slung by those that want to keep history focused only on the contributions of white males.
I somewhat agree with what you are saying, but "woke" is also a lot more complicated than that. I think there is truth to the following:
By wokeism, I refer to a movement that, on the positive side, is highly aware of racism and social injustice, and is galvanized toward raising awareness. On the negative side, it can be preachy, alienating, overly concerned with symbols and self-righteous.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... nfluential

One real weakness of the alt-right, among others, is that its bizarrely post-modern approach to giving wokeism the middle finger is even more troubling than the strident righteousness of wokeism.
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Re: Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

Post by Doctor Steuss »

I have a Mormon uncle who ruled the roost as a devout Mormon and now that his wife has a debilitating illness, it is his masculine power and money that is capable of taking care of her [...]
What exactly is "masculine power and money," and how does it differ from say "feminine power and money," or regular power and money?

Both of my grandfathers were farmers/ranchers. Both served in WWII, and one of them also served in Korea. One of my grandmothers was a quintessential stay-at-home mom of sorts. She took care of the house, kids, and garden as much as she could (she had debilitating nerve pain from perpetually herniating lumbar discs). She also did what most small town wives of farmers/ranchers did -- helped rope/brand/castrate livestock, bailed hay, etc. My other grandmother took care of the kids, but also taught at the nearby college. Both of my grandmothers saved almost every penny my grandfathers sent home, and worked themselves to take care of all necessities while they were at war, allowing them to buy houses/land when my grandfathers got home.

One grandfather took care of my grandmother as her health declined. One grandmother took care of my grandfather as his health declined. Was one of my war veteran rancher grandfathers less masculine? Was the money and pension that my grandmother earned somehow less-than, or emasculating, as it took care of my grandfather or allowed him to stay in the nicest long-term care facility available in their city?
Last edited by Doctor Steuss on Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:25 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:09 am
Be kind.
Kind. Like you?
mentalgymnast, in response to an announcement of an upcoming presentation, wrote:
by the way, loser, we are already well aware that you don't believe in the Divine calling of Joseph Smith...so what's your point in preaching to the choir? You already know you're gonna just get high fives. So what's your point? Much ado about nothing, isn't it?

You're a loser, grindael. Ya, I know I just called you a loser. But the shoe fits.
That was not kind. Preach to yourself.
Yep. That interchange, among others, was pretty nasty coming from both sides. We all have need of repentance. He that says he/she has no sin is a liar. I’ve made mistakes. I have sinned.

I don’t know much about Free Ranger, but it looked to me as though he was being treated harshly from the beginning of this thread.

Thus my suggestion to be kind.

And honestly, Marcus, I’m confused. I REALLY don’t know how to address you. You are either a him or a her, I suspect. It’s nice to be able to know WHO you’re addressing. Gender plays some part in that. At least from where I sit.

If you could be more open as to your current gender identity on this board I think you would find it would do more good than harm.

And Kishkumen, I am torn on the whole thing with wokeism. There is much good that COULD come out of it in some respects. But I think the movement has become hijacked by the radical left…and the right…for their own purposes. Any time ideology becomes radicalized and free thought is squelched we have a clear and present danger to the overall health of society.

Free Ranger shouldn’t be shut down by default. He should be engaged in healthy debate/conversation and sharing of ideas.

That’s not what I observed.

Regards,
MG
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Re: Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

Post by Marcus »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:17 pm
…And honestly, Marcus, I’m confused. I REALLY don’t know how to address you. You are either a him or a her, I suspect. It’s nice to be able to know WHO you’re addressing. Gender plays some part in that. At least from where I sit.

If you could be more open as to your current gender identity on this board I think you would find it would do more good than harm.
you’re on your own here, mentalgymnast, I’m not accommodating your issues. You can refer to me as they, and speak to me as a person.

Additionally, your worry about how I might be female, closely coupled with your completely speculative musings that I may have had “childhood trauma” are grossly inappropriate. Please stop being so creepy.
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Re: Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

Post by huckelberry »

Wokism?
To the best of my understanding masculinity asks an individual to be responsible, courageous, determined to develop competency and hopefully more. People should be moving toward making good things including social structures that work well. I do not see wokeism hurting any of this in any way.

To say sometimes men can be abusive and use power over people in injuries ways does not hurt masculinity. Men are stronger if they do not do these things.

To say women can be responsible, courageous, and effective does not detract from men.
/////
Now that I have stated the obvious I ask is there a way in which wokeism is hurting? I think there are some instateces where people overinvest in pointing fingers at people.
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Re: Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

Post by sock puppet »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:00 pm
sock puppet wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:40 pm
I agree. I also like what Jon Stewart has to say about "Wokeism"--until he got labeled as "woke" he just thought he was really good at history. "Woke" is simply the disparaging word du jour by one of the extremes (this time, the far right). Dig just beyond the surface and it is merely a disparagement of previously obscured or overlooked facts of history coming to light and informing us. It is a term slung by those that want to keep history focused only on the contributions of white males.
I somewhat agree with what you are saying, but "woke" is also a lot more complicated than that. I think there is truth to the following:
By wokeism, I refer to a movement that, on the positive side, is highly aware of racism and social injustice, and is galvanized toward raising awareness. On the negative side, it can be preachy, alienating, overly concerned with symbols and self-righteous.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... nfluential

One real weakness of the alt-right, among others, is that its bizarrely post-modern approach to giving wokeism the middle finger is even more troubling than the strident righteousness of wokeism.
Everything is subject these days to misuse by the radicals on the far ends of the progressive-conservative spectrum in these deeply divided times. When you look at the core--bringing to light and raising awareness of the history of racism and social injustice--I would not like to argue against "Wokeism" no matter how much of a bugaboo that the far right has made that term. White males (my demo) feel threatened whenever other demographics are accommodated in the U.S. White males are losing their domain, and are having trouble coming to grips with a society that treats others as well as them.
"Apologists try to shill an explanation to questioning members as though science and reason really explain and buttress their professed faith. It [sic] does not. ...faith is the antithesis of science and reason." Critic as quoted by Peterson, Daniel C. (2010) FARMS Review, Intro., v22:2,2.
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Re: Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:29 pm
You can refer to me as they, and speak to me as a person.
That clarifies things, I guess. It does sound a bit ambiguous though. But that’s the world we live in.

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MG
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Re: Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

Post by Marcus »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:14 pm
I have a Mormon uncle who ruled the roost as a devout Mormon and now that his wife has a debilitating illness, it is his masculine power and money that is capable of taking care of her [...]
What exactly is "masculine power and money," and how does it differ from say "feminine power and money," or regular power and money?

Both of my grandfathers were farmers/ranchers. Both served in WWII, and one of them also served in Korea. One of my grandmothers was a quintessential stay-at-home mom of sorts. She took care of the house, kids, and garden as much as she could (she had debilitating nerve pain from perpetually herniating lumbar discs). She also did what most small town wives of farmers/ranchers did -- helped rope/brand/castrate livestock, bailed hay, etc. My other grandmother took care of the kids, but also taught at the nearby college. Both of my grandmothers saved almost every penny my grandfathers sent home, and worked themselves to take care of all necessities while they were at war, allowing them to buy houses/land when my grandfathers got home.

One grandfather took care of my grandmother as her health declined. One grandmother took care of my grandfather as his health declined. Was one of my war veteran rancher grandfathers less masculine? Was the money and pension that my grandmother earned somehow less-than, or emasculating, as it took care of my grandfather or allowed him to stay in the nicest long-term care facility available in their city?
This is a great example, Doctor Steuss, thank you for sharing. Your grandparents, all four of them, sound like terrific people.
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Re: Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

Post by huckelberry »

Physics Guy wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:13 pm
I'm sort of torn when this kind of topic comes up.

The older and wiser part of me has the feeling that a lot of these Neo-chauvinist incel guys are people in pain, and it's hard to deal with anything well when you're hurting. There ought to be some way to give these guys a safe space where they can catch their breath and calm down and get their bearings again, or something. Maybe they've been looking for love in too many wrong places, and are just too bruised to look up and look around and see the brighter alternatives. There are better places to look, not all of them in conservative religions.

The part of me that still remembers my brief military experience isn't so understanding. It wants to say something like, "If you're so into traditional masculinity, buddy, why don't you start with Rule One and quit whining?" That's cold and cruel, an example of all that's wrong with traditional masculinity. I don't actually want to be like that. But it's just so ironic to hear people beating their chests about our culture's lost respect for manliness, or whatever, when that kind of blaming everyone around you for your problems is exactly what old-school manly men would despise.
I was not in the military but remembering back I remember a few times I fell into whining. There are various ways to run into the slap in the face, "stop whining and stand up". I am very glad for them. It is an essential step. I started to write first step and am reminded by Physics guy that perhaps a step back to calm can be a prepatory to stop whining and stand up.
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Re: Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

Post by Kishkumen »

sock puppet wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:46 pm
Everything is subject these days to misuse by the radicals on the far ends of the progressive-conservative spectrum in these deeply divided times. When you look at the core--bringing to light and raising awareness of the history of racism and social injustice--I would not like to argue against "Wokeism" no matter how much of a bugaboo that the far right has made that term. White males (my demo) feel threatened whenever other demographics are accommodated in the U.S. White males are losing their domain, and are having trouble coming to grips with a society that treats others as well as them.
I think that is largely true. No group that has power and perceives its loss is happy about it. At the same time, this seems reductive to me.
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