Radio Free Mormon & Backyard Professor Take Elder David A. Bednar to the Limit

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

A functional methodology is one that both minimizes confirmation bias and works as intended. The intent of methodology isn't to confirm the bias, as you mistakenly supposed, since it is designed to minimize it. Instead, the intent is to test and produce GROWTH and DEVELOPMENT in faith and knowledge and other attributes, and this beyond the confirmed bias. It is the GROWTH and DEVELOPMENT that indicate that methodology works as intended. It is the GROWTH and DEVELOPMENT that indicate that the methodology is functional.

Think of it as similar to the scientific method. The scientific method is functional because it both minimizes confirmation bias and works as intended. The intent of the scientific method isn't to confirm the bias that it is designed to minimize. Instead, the intent is to test and produce GROWTH and DEVELOPMENT in scientific knowledge. It works as intended. It is functional.

It’s interesting watching someone mentally locked into Mormonism, posting the same exact mental flippity doops for 20+ years, referencing Mormon scripture that sprung from the mind of a convicted scryer and scam artist, lecture others on ‘methodology’ that promotes ‘growth’ and ‘development’, whatever that means for him. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has caused Wade Englund to grow and develop beyond a stunted worldview that Mormonism produces. He’s about as curious about all the other religions, philosophies, and sciences as Mental Gymnast is, but goddamn if he won’t lecture others on “methodology “ and “growth” and “development” when in reality he’s literally retarded his own growth and development by staying tidally locked to the nonsensical worldview that is Mormonism.

Ugh.

- Doc

[drumdude]

He will be blessed for enduring to the end.

The more difficult it is to believe, the more blessings. If it was easy, everyone would have blessings. Heavenly Father wouldn’t want that now would he?

[Dr Exiled]

He will be blessed for enduring to the end.

The more difficult it is to believe, the more blessings. If it was easy, everyone would have blessings. Heavenly Father wouldn’t want that now would he?

What's the point of being humbly superior if you cannot look down on the lesser brothers and sisters? I'm for having a Mormonism that is so obviously preposterous so that only a precious few dups believe. That'll lessen the competition for the bitches in the next glorious world.

[wenglund]

You can leave off the “does that help” comments. Unless you want me, a professor at an exceedingly more prestigious university than yours, to condescend correspondingly to you.

It was an innocuous and hierarchical-neutral way of asking if I had clarified things sufficiently so as to be correctly understood.

Your analogy of the scientific method is misused, due to the lack of falsification in your process.

But, Alma 32 does include falsification. See verse 32: "Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away."

The Alma test you referred to earlier has implicit in it the requirement that if the expected answer is not received, one should try again until one receives the correct answer, which, by definition, is the “intended” response.

Changing the way the word “intent” is used, as you did in the above paragraph, does not obviate the clear implication that the “intended growth, development, and progress” was intended to be in the direction of your starting assumptions.

Continuing to search until your starting assumptions are vindicated, at least in your mind, is the definition of confirmation bias.

I just read through the passage 3 times and found no such implication. Could you point me to the verse or verses in which you think it is implied?

Here is a link to Section 32 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 2?lang=eng. The Method is set forth in verses 21 to 43

Thanks, Wade Englund-

[Philo Sofee]

Wade
But, Alma 32 does include falsification. See verse 32: "Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away."

So why are those who have tossed the seed away from the test, since obviously it is not good, always getting into trouble and pressured to endure to the end and stay on the Covenant Path, an obviously flawed idea, since the seed is bad, with the church and apologists?

[Marcus]

You can leave off the “does that help” comments. Unless you want me, a professor at an exceedingly more prestigious university than yours, to condescend correspondingly to you.

It was an innocuous and hierarchical-neutral way of asking if I had clarified things sufficiently so as to be correctly understood.

No it wasn’t.

Your assertion about the Alma 32 test being falsifiable is not in keeping with your religion’s position, hence my use of the term implicit. For you to argue now that it technically is falsifiable, on the basis of your interpretation of your scripture, an interpretation that is unsupported by your religion and absolutely unsupported by your own posts here, misses the point.

My point remains, a test is invalid when one is inserting one’s conclusions into the starting assumptions. There is no possibility of falsification.

Wade
But, Alma 32 does include falsification. See verse 32: "Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away."

So why are those who have tossed the seed away from the test, since obviously it is not good, always getting into trouble and pressured to endure to the end and stay on the Covenant Path, an obviously flawed idea, since the seed is bad, with the church and apologists?

It is interesting that after making multiple posts about his perception of the “errors” of those who choose differently than himself, as well as the absolute superiority of his choices and his alone, he now wants to make this argument.

[IHAQ]

Alma 32 verse 32 is nonsensical.

32 Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 2?lang=eng

If something grows, that means it's good? Really? A growth in Trumpism means Trumpism is good? A growth in gun violence means gun violence is good? For a seemingly intelligent poster, wenglund's appeal to Alma 32 seems utterly stupid.

[dastardly stem]

I don’t think the process to which you refer is a reliable one. And the bill of Mormon claims are unreasonable when viewing the evidence which suggests the inward process that has rewarded you, in whichever way that may be, is quite likely a prolonged case of confirmation bias. But if not I’d be interested in an explanation that demonstrates to one degree or another how the process can be tested.

Confirmation bias is unavoidable to varying degrees, no matter what epistemological or developmental methods are employed, be they secular or religious.

However, functional methods (processes) will naturally include elements to help minimize or surmount confirmation bias where possible.

Since confirmation bias merely confirms what is already known or believed, and represents the status quo, an epistemological or developmental methodology that includes the element of growth in knowledge and faith, can reasonably be considered as functional because it surmounts the confirmation bias.

The process outlined in Alma 32, particularly when used in conjunction with Moroni 10, and as employed in relation the restored gospel of Christ, contains an element of growth (it is actually THE key element), and thus may be considered functional.

Said another way, epistemological and developmental methodologies (processes) can reasonably be considered as functional if they produce the intended growth, development, and progress. The continued progression of millions of faithful members of the restored gospel of Christ attest to the functionality of Alma 32, Moroni 10, and the gospel.

The question isn't can you get other people to fall into the trap er...I mean other people to agree with you about your spiritual belief. In the case of people who agree their spiritual growth has happened, we still are unable to determine if there is anything to the claim. Each and every of the millions, even if there were billions this would be true, could simply be mistaken. What meaningful progress can be claimed by these millions that other people can't also claim? If others can claim the same, then how do we ever really demonstrate this said progress? The problem here is you're not testing anything. You would simply be confirming what you really want or think. Any claimed progress is as make believe as the tooth fairy since it's only claimed and not demonstrated.

In terms of reliability, it helps to understand that Alma 32 et. al, is more of tests of the "testers" (i.e. the testing of people who have employed Alma 32 and Moroni 10 in relation to the gospel) than it is a test of spiritual things. And, these tests of the "testers" are ongoing throughout each stage of development unto maturation in the gospel.

As would be expect of any functional epistemological and developmental process in which multiple humans are involved, the results of the testing and development will be varied. This is self-evident in secular education systems and businesses throughout the world.

Likewise, to varying degrees within the church, many members continue to pass or even ace their series tests, or have sought to improve when their scores have been less than desired, and as such, they continue to progress in faith; while others end up failing or flunking at various stages of development, and over various length of time they may end up just going through the motions and stagnating. Some even drop out of the process.

Given the functionality of the process, it is reasonable to conclude that the varied results aren't indicative of the lack of reliability of the process, but rather the lack of reliability of those being "tested" by the process.

As I see it, there are at least two key differentiators between those who continue to develop as contrasted with those who stagnate or drop out. They include: 1) varied levels of awareness that the "testers" are the ones being tested (some mistakenly assume that it is God, and His existence, that is being tested, whereas, ironically, they are the ones being tested by God); and 2) diverse understanding as to the intended objective or end result of the process (some mistakenly assume that "truth", or their understanding thereof, is the intended end result, whereas, coming to Christ and becoming like him, is the actual objective).

Thanks, Wade Englund

This really makes little sense at all. If you have a test or results then share them. This is talking around the requested information. It sounds to me you are making up a realm (A spirit realm) and pretending people who really think there is a spirit realm and really think in the context of a spirit realm that Mormonism is true are really progressing in that realm. What real world tests would one use to actually demonstrate this realm? What real world tests would one use to actually demonstrate progress in that realm? My perspective is this is all make believe (well because I've ran the gamut you describe for years before). There is no such realm, at least nothing demonstrable. And there is no scale that any of us can observe to measure progress. Its as if you are measuring the progress of blocks of cheese jumping in another dimension while in this world. "that cheddar jumps higher than that mozzarella so it has progressed more. If you have eyes to see after reading this book about cheeses and the maker of that other realm inspires you to care of this stuff, you too would know which cheese has progressed. This only works for those who have eyes to see. Everyone else is not worthy for our great maker to bother himself with. Eternally they shall regret their disbelief."

[dastardly stem]

Wade, simplistically, its more likely you and your millions of fellow Mormons are mistaken. It is more likely than an undemonstrated spirit world, an undemonstrated God existing, and that this undemonstrated God cares about people on earth believing Mormon beliefs and assenting to them. Its more likely you are mistaken than it is God is hiding somewhere watching and waiting to either help one on the road to progress or send them strong delusions. Dependent on things like, does that person believe this weird sounding set of religious dogma? Does this person think, without demonstration, I exist, or there is a realm unknowable to them that interacts with their unfounded spirit bodies housed inside them?

[malkie]

...
Its as if you are measuring the progress of blocks of cheese jumping in another dimension while in this world. "that cheddar jumps higher than that mozzarella so it has progressed more. If you have eyes to see after reading this book about cheeses and the maker of that other realm inspires you to care of this stuff, you too would know which cheese has progressed. This only works for those who have eyes to see. Everyone else is not worthy for our great maker to bother himself with. Eternally they shall regret their disbelief."

A spokesperson for the Church of Mozzarella Cheese (and Rice) disputes that statement, by pointing out that their millions of members confirm the grater (!) progress of mozzarella that is obvious to anyone who is properly sensitive, through prayer and study, to the supreme state of progress that dairy products can achieve.