...I'm really liking IHQ's tree idea. You're really just working it out in your own mind but formalizing the process by taking advantage of the majesty of Nature. That's pretty appealing.
I was always partial to this plum tree depiction that used to be in the Metropolitan. The small image size below doesn't do it justice, as it is almost 6 ft tall by 16 ft wide. One whole room was devoted to it:
That’s an impressive art piece.
It is. I have very fond memories of taking my kids to the museum when they were younger, and always squeezing in a few minutes to just let the majesty of this art wash over me.
I can’t claim the tree idea as mine. I read it somewhere. I think Taoism promotes the notion that embracing nature as a means of understanding your place in the world. As a way of keeping your mental balance. A place where you can think things through for yourself.
I couldn't agree more.
It’s a far better place for higher level thoughts than sat in a pew listening to someone slog through a series of quotes that end with the key message of switching your own brain off and doing exactly what 15 old men in Utah tell you to do instead. Doubt your doubts, as it were.
Lol. Exactly. I hear that those meetings now are far more controlled than before, and almost exclusively require speakers to do nothing more than rehash GC talks. Wow. That must really be intolerable.
Trees will stand there listening to you exploring your own thoughts. And they won’t judge you for that morning cup of Joe.
Hah! I'm not a coffee drinker but my SO always enjoys his morning coffee outside. I thought he was watching the birds but I'm sure the trees have been contributing to his serenity as well.
: D
What do you know about Christ? For example, do you know/believe/have faith that He was resurrected? Your earlier post was, in my opinion, defective and showed lack of understanding in some respects. That's why I bumped it for you to come back to. It seemed to show a misunderstanding of the events surrounding the resurrection and how that might have affected the aftermath, etc.
Why do you feel so strongly that leaders of the LDS Church have lesser knowledge than you in the matter I just mentioned along with others? Is it because they're human and have made mistakes?
Regards,
MG
There is no good evidence Christ or anyone else has ever reanimated after death. All the cobbled scriptures and witness claims have been made for all kinds of prophets who resurrected Christ is merely one of them.
Your post reminded me of the fact that I asked IHQ some pointed questions concerning the resurrection of Christ which he never answered. He said some things that just didn’t make sense.
He may have realized that.
What you’re saying on its surface is correct. Jesus was not and hasn’t been the only one to claim to be the messiah. However, the movement that resulted from His teachings, His life, His resurrection narrative…ended up dwarfing them all.
It stuck. In your mind is that just a roll of the dice?
There is no good evidence Christ or anyone else has ever reanimated after death. All the cobbled scriptures and witness claims have been made for all kinds of prophets who resurrected Christ is merely one of them.
Your post reminded me of the fact that I asked IHQ some pointed questions concerning the resurrection of Christ which he never answered. He said some things that just didn’t make sense.
He may have realized that.
What you’re saying on its surface is correct. Jesus was not and hasn’t been the only one to claim to be the messiah. However, the movement that resulted from His teachings, His life, His resurrection narrative…ended up dwarfing them all.
It stuck. In your mind is that just a roll of the dice?
Regards,
MG
You are missing the point. The many claims of reanimation were not isolated to a messiah. There were all kinds of claims of resurrection.
There is no good evidence Christ or anyone else has ever reanimated after death. All the cobbled scriptures and witness claims have been made for all kinds of prophets who resurrected Christ is merely one of them.
Plus many people have been pronounced “dead” only for them to recover as they weren’t actually dead in the first place. There are examples of this happening even today. Christ’s resurrection may well be the earliest example of an Urban Myth. Lots of people have seen Elvis since he died…
The Son of the Widow of Zarephath, date unknown.
As reported in the Bible(1 Kings 17:21), the prophet Elijah prayed over the body of the boy that God would “Let this child’s life come unto him again,” and the boy then lived again.
How come today’s Prophets and Apostles can’t do that kind of thing?
Last edited by I Have Questions on Thu Oct 15, 2026 12:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Your post reminded me of the fact that I asked IHQ some pointed questions concerning the resurrection of Christ which he never answered. He said some things that just didn’t make sense.
He may have realized that.
What you’re saying on its surface is correct. Jesus was not and hasn’t been the only one to claim to be the messiah. However, the movement that resulted from His teachings, His life, His resurrection narrative…ended up dwarfing them all.
It stuck. In your mind is that just a roll of the dice?
Regards,
MG
You are missing the point. The many claims of reanimation were not isolated to a messiah. There were all kinds of claims of resurrection.
Lol. Exactly. I hear that those meetings now are far more controlled than before, and almost exclusively require speakers to do nothing more than rehash GC talks. Wow. That must really be intolerable.
Its even worse now that they’ve further consolidated the lessons so that they last 20/25 minutes, removing any scope for discussion or interesting questions (which they clearly don’t want to encourage).
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Lol. Exactly. I hear that those meetings now are far more controlled than before, and almost exclusively require speakers to do nothing more than rehash GC talks. Wow. That must really be intolerable.
Its even worse now that they’ve further consolidated the lessons so that they last 20/25 minutes, removing any scope for discussion or interesting questions (which they clearly don’t want to encourage).
I think that there are other reasons. What you say is true though. We will not be digging as deep as we might with more time. But we weren't digging that deep anyways.
Lol. Exactly. I hear that those meetings now are far more controlled than before, and almost exclusively require speakers to do nothing more than rehash GC talks. Wow. That must really be intolerable.
Its even worse now that they’ve further consolidated the lessons so that they last 20/25 minutes, removing any scope for discussion or interesting questions (which they clearly don’t want to encourage).
They must really be having a problem with those 'intellectuals' Holland didn't like.
Its even worse now that they’ve further consolidated the lessons so that they last 20/25 minutes, removing any scope for discussion or interesting questions (which they clearly don’t want to encourage).
They must really be having a problem with those 'intellectuals' Holland didn't like.
More like they were having problems with older people nodding off or having to visit the restroom before the end of the lesson. I can speak from experience.
Its even worse now that they’ve further consolidated the lessons so that they last 20/25 minutes, removing any scope for discussion or interesting questions (which they clearly don’t want to encourage).
They must really be having a problem with those 'intellectuals' Holland didn't like.
They must be, given how the church has consistently targeted critical thinkers and independent scholars because free inquiry poses an existential threat.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."
