Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?

[MG 2.0]

... Memories can be molded and morphed depending on the inward workings of an individual’s heart and mind over time.

...I am wholly cognizant that opinions will vary, again, because of the inward workings of an individual’s own heart and mind...

Those are very helpful statements to fall back on when one tries to understand the believing Mormon position.

It’s the human condition. Nothing new there.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

... Memories can be molded and morphed depending on the inward workings of an individual’s heart and mind over time.

...I am wholly cognizant that opinions will vary, again, because of the inward workings of an individual’s own heart and mind...

Those are very helpful statements to fall back on when one tries to understand the believing Mormon position.

Sounds like an admission of confirmation bias to me.

[I Have Questions]

Here’s an example from the Book of Mormon that strongly suggests Smith was making things up on the fly, rather than reading specific words, one at a time, off a magic rock.

19 And thus we see that, when these Lamanites were brought to believe and to know the truth, they were firm, and would suffer even unto death rather than commit sin; and thus we see that they buried their weapons of peace, or they buried the weapons of war, for peace.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 4?lang=eng

As you can see there is a misstep in there, which then gets corrected. That’s not someone reading divinely generated words from off of a magic rock. That’s someone making a story up as he goes along.

“Smith actively participated as a lay exhorter among the Methodist near his home in Palmyra,” Davis writes in his book, “Visions in a Seer Stone: Joseph Smith and the Making of the Book of Mormon,” “... and he frequently attended the church services and revival meetings of several denominations in his surrounding area.”

The boy became adept at memorizing stories and scriptural passages, creating a coherent outline, then weaving them together into powerful prose, the independent scholar says.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/09 ... ew-an-old/

Smith also padded his magnum opus with KJV Bible content, not realising it was anachronistic, or perhaps he figured nobody would notice.

[I Have Questions]

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 KJV Probably the Apostle Paul speaking
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Moroni 7:45 Supposedly this is Mormon speaking
And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Did Joseph translate that from ancient plates using magic spectacles, read those words off of a magic rock, or was he simply plagiarising content from a King James Bible?

It’s worth noting that the Church has stayed away from grasping this particular nettle in its Gospel Topics and “essays”. I’m guessing they can’t find an angle they are prepared to officially stand behind, and they don’t want to draw members attention to it.

[MG 2.0]

Here’s an example from the Book of Mormon that strongly suggests Smith was making things up on the fly, rather than reading specific words, one at a time, off a magic rock.

19 And thus we see that, when these Lamanites were brought to believe and to know the truth, they were firm, and would suffer even unto death rather than commit sin; and thus we see that they buried their weapons of peace, or they buried the weapons of war, for peace.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... tures/Book of Mormon/alma/24?lang=eng

As you can see there is a misstep in there, which then gets corrected. That’s not someone reading divinely generated words from off of a magic rock. That’s someone making a story up as he goes along.

“Smith actively participated as a lay exhorter among the Methodist near his home in Palmyra,” Davis writes in his book, “Visions in a Seer Stone: Joseph Smith and the Making of the Book of Mormon,” “... and he frequently attended the church services and revival meetings of several denominations in his surrounding area.”

The boy became adept at memorizing stories and scriptural passages, creating a coherent outline, then weaving them together into powerful prose, the independent scholar says.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/09 ... ew-an-old/

Smith also padded his magnum opus with KJV Bible content, not realising it was anachronistic, or perhaps he figured nobody would notice.

Yeah, right.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 KJV Probably the Apostle Paul speaking
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Moroni 7:45 Supposedly this is Mormon speaking
And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Did Joseph translate that from ancient plates using magic spectacles, read those words off of a magic rock, or was he simply plagiarising content from a King James Bible?

It’s worth noting that the Church has stayed away from grasping this particular nettle in its Gospel Topics and “essays”. I’m guessing they can’t find an angle they are prepared to officially stand behind, and they don’t want to draw members attention to it.

The translation process comes down to “gift and power of God”…and whether or not there is another dimension of reality in which information, knowledge, and expertise is accessible to the larger community of living souls in this sphere of existence.

Another poster recently proposed that there might be a central repository of ‘boilerplate’ scripture that is used in the compilation of scriptural canon along with the the baseline narrative contained on localized access points (plates). I’m stating it a bit differently, but that’s the gist. Interesting idea.

Not doctrine!

If you’re shrink wrapping everything into a ‘magic rock’ without any further explanation or commentary, it sounds as if your focus is simply on ‘wild superstition’. That limits what you might be able to entertain.

It also limits your ability to receive the word of God into your life.

My opinion anyway.

I’m always a bit perplexed as to why some folks are unwilling to entertain that the “gift and power of God” may have included processes that are beyond direct human understanding.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Those are very helpful statements to fall back on when one tries to understand the believing Mormon position.

Sounds like an admission of confirmation bias to me.

Are you saying that in your own life that, “... Memories can be molded and morphed depending on the inward workings of an individual’s heart and mind over time” has not been your experience?

On the other hand, if this has been your experience would you call that confirmation bias?

If so, are we then on equal footing?

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 KJV Probably the Apostle Paul speaking
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Moroni 7:45 Supposedly this is Mormon speaking
And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Did Joseph translate that from ancient plates using magic spectacles, read those words off of a magic rock, or was he simply plagiarising content from a King James Bible?

It’s worth noting that the Church has stayed away from grasping this particular nettle in its Gospel Topics and “essays”. I’m guessing they can’t find an angle they are prepared to officially stand behind, and they don’t want to draw members attention to it.

The translation process comes down to “gift and power of God”…and whether or not there is another dimension of reality in which information, knowledge, and expertise is accessible to the larger community of living souls in this sphere of existence.

In this very clear example the translation process obviously came down to Smith plagiarising the King James Bible, taking words from Paul’s mouth and reinserting them into the fictional Mormon’s mouth.

[I Have Questions]

Are you saying that in your own life that, “... Memories can be molded and morphed depending on the inward workings of an individual’s heart and mind over time” has not been your experience?

If you are saying that a persons memory is unreliable, I agree. If you’re saying that a persons personal bias can further add to that unreliability, I agree. Of course, this simply means that Smith’s First Vision accounts should be treated as unreliable and influenced by his personal biases. I’m sure you agree.

[Chap]

The translation process comes down to “gift and power of God”…and whether or not there is another dimension of reality in which information, knowledge, and expertise is accessible to the larger community of living souls in this sphere of existence.

In this very clear example the translation process obviously came down to Smith plagiarising the King James Bible, taking words from Paul’s mouth and reinserting them into the fictional Mormon’s mouth.

Let's see ... the alternative to concluding that Smith just borrowed/adapted sentences from a c. 1600 CE English translation of a text by Paul written in Greek in the 1st century CE and put it into the mouth of an alleged person in the 4th century CE (speaking goodness knows what language) is ... well, it seems to be no more than 'God may sometimes do some really weird and apparently pointless stuff''.

OK. Not for nothing is the person who puts that view forward called 'Mental Gymnast'. But may I suggest that 'Contortionist' might be more appropriate than 'Gymnast'?