DCP Supports Whitewash of History

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_Mister Scratch
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DCP Supports Whitewash of History

Post by _Mister Scratch »

A pretty compelling post on the ironically named FAIRboard, from a poster named fox-goku:

Why is there no lesson in this year's Priesthood/Relief Society manual on the 1890 Manifesto of Wilford Woodruff???

There is token mention on p. xiii that President Woodruff "received a revelation from the Lord" on September 24, 1890. It is NOT hard to argue that this event was one of the most important in ALL of Church history. The Manifesto is plain for all to see in the D&C. So, why is it NOT plainly discussed???

Practice of polygamy will lead to excommunication. Therefore, we cannot argue that the Manifesto is irrelevant to today's practice of Mormonism. I guess I would just appreciate an open discussion in Church of the abandonment of polygamy


Excellent points, and this essentially resurrects the hoary old specter of the BY manual that failed to mention his polygamy. Some follow-up posts from some of the FAIR regulars, including this wiggedy-whack tidbit from juliann-the-perpetual-grad-student:

juliann wrote:
(Her Amun @ Oct 27 2006, 10:22 PM)

Actually, more wives=fewer babies. Under what scenario will more children be born, one man with 20 wives or 20 men with one wife each? Under scenario one, you have one sperm donor. Under scenario two, you have 20 sperm donors. For the polygamist in this situation, he would have to have sex as often as 20 men.
fewer children per woman,more children per man......i think that is what actually happened. this might actually be healthier for the woman and her offspring. This way a woman can cut back on child birth while still multiplying and repleneshing the earth.



You are right. There were some instances where there were more women (or at least not enough Mormon men.) It was also helpful to single immigrant women by distributing property. When the countermos think women back then could saddle up their horse and ride to the nearest ATM machine to pay for all of those C-sections and other life saving techniques... it is a little difficult to have a conversation about the limitations of life for women in that era. One of the major problems was their inability to control their own bodies and, thus, pregnancy. Pregnancy was serious business. Life for the lower class women was factory work....it doesn't get much worse than that. Until the countermos can muster the intellectual honesty to compare what a typical woman's life of that class would have been like in an eastern city as opposed to a Utah city these discussions never get anywhere.


Huh? What do class status and working conditions have to do with a woman's sharing her husband with other women? Also, doesn't juliann know that the de rigueur birth control method during that era was coitus interruptus? Or is she implying that Mormon men during the 19th century refused to do that, and that the women didn't get any say in the matter? Hmmmm.

Finally, we get Prof. Peterson, calling for a whitewash via one of my fave apologetic red herrings:

If the manual and the course of study were focused on Church history or on the biography of Wilford Woodruff, I would find it a serious oversight if the Manifesto were not treated in some detail.

Since the manual and the course of study are focused neither on Church history nor on the biography of Wilford Woodruff, I don't see why the Manifesto should be a focus of either the manual or classroom discussion.


I wonder how he feels about post-Manifesto polygamy, and whether or not he feels that that should be stricken from the record, too.
_harmony
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Re: DCP Supports Whitewash of History

Post by _harmony »

Finally, we get Prof. Peterson, calling for a whitewash via one of my fave apologetic red herrings:

If the manual and the course of study were focused on Church history or on the biography of Wilford Woodruff, I would find it a serious oversight if the Manifesto were not treated in some detail.

Since the manual and the course of study are focused neither on Church history nor on the biography of Wilford Woodruff, I don't see why the Manifesto should be a focus of either the manual or classroom discussion.


I wonder how he feels about post-Manifesto polygamy, and whether or not he feels that that should be stricken from the record, too.
[/quote]

What exactly is the course of study supposed to be, if neither church history or Wilford Woodruff?
_moksha
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Re: DCP Supports Whitewash of History

Post by _moksha »

Mister Scratch wrote: Also, doesn't juliann know that the de rigueur birth control method during that era was coitus interruptus?

The Shakers of that era even became adept at Coitus Prolongus. However the polygamous Mormons liked to practice Coitus Yourturnus.



Where are those darned smilies???
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Rollo Tomasi II

Re: DCP Supports Whitewash of History

Post by _Rollo Tomasi II »

Mister Scratch wrote:Finally, we get Prof. Peterson, calling for a whitewash via one of my fave apologetic red herrings:

If the manual and the course of study were focused on Church history or on the biography of Wilford Woodruff, I would find it a serious oversight if the Manifesto were not treated in some detail.

Since the manual and the course of study are focused neither on Church history nor on the biography of Wilford Woodruff, I don't see why the Manifesto should be a focus of either the manual or classroom discussion.

This is a bunch of BS. Just last year the Church studied the D&C and Church history in Sunday School. They handed out a 152-page booklet entitled Our Heritage: A Brief History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So where does this booklet first mention polygamy, a major part of LDS history under any standard? Not until page 97, squeezed in after the discussion of the 1880 Jubilee and federal persecution in the 1880's. In other words, this history book's first mention of polygamy is out of place by 50 years. Let's face it, it doesn't matter whether the class is about history or something else -- the Church will downplay or completely ignore the issue of polygamy in the hope that folks will just forget about that embarrassing 75-year episode in Church history (which is still ongoing, by the way, thanks to D&C 132 and official policy that still allows men to be sealed to more than one wife under certain circumstances, which a full one-third of the current Quorum of the 12 has taken advantage of).
_Jason Bourne
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Re: DCP Supports Whitewash of History

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Rollo Tomasi II wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:Finally, we get Prof. Peterson, calling for a whitewash via one of my fave apologetic red herrings:

If the manual and the course of study were focused on Church history or on the biography of Wilford Woodruff, I would find it a serious oversight if the Manifesto were not treated in some detail.

Since the manual and the course of study are focused neither on Church history nor on the biography of Wilford Woodruff, I don't see why the Manifesto should be a focus of either the manual or classroom discussion.

This is a bunch of BS. Just last year the Church studied the D&C and Church history in Sunday School. They handed out a 152-page booklet entitled Our Heritage: A Brief History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So where does this booklet first mention polygamy, a major part of LDS history under any standard? Not until page 97, squeezed in after the discussion of the 1880 Jubilee and federal persecution in the 1880's. In other words, this history book's first mention of polygamy is out of place by 50 years. Let's face it, it doesn't matter whether the class is about history or something else -- the Church will downplay or completely ignore the issue of polygamy in the hope that folks will just forget about that embarrassing 75-year episode in Church history (which is still ongoing, by the way, thanks to D&C 132 and official policy that still allows men to be sealed to more than one wife under certain circumstances, which a full one-third of the current Quorum of the 12 has taken advantage of).


The deal here is that the Church really wants it to go away. They want to distant themselves from it. The best way is to admit it was bad deal, an error, and all that. But they won't because that taints the past prophets. Same deal with the priesthood and the black. But like McConkie or not, he had the guts to admit what he had written on that was a mistake.

Jason
_Gazelam
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Post by _Gazelam »

Why in the world would any of the General Authorities want Polygamy to go away? This is a ridiculous statement. Jason backed me up on another thread, so I hate to call him on this one, but that's ridiculous. Polygamy is a righteous Doctrine, it tests and stretchs and grows the participants to being closer to God and gaining a further understanding of heavenly things. Any declaration to the contrary is false. People who uphold their covenants are always blessed. Re-read section 132 again, those are the words of the Savior on the matter, and anything contrary is false.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

Gazelam wrote:Why in the world would any of the General Authorities want Polygamy to go away? This is a ridiculous statement. Jason backed me up on another thread, so I hate to call him on this one, but that's ridiculous. Polygamy is a righteous Doctrine, it tests and stretchs and grows the participants to being closer to God and gaining a further understanding of heavenly things. Any declaration to the contrary is false. People who uphold their covenants are always blessed. Re-read section 132 again, those are the words of the Savior on the matter, and anything contrary is false.


Polygamy is manmade from start to finish, and it's easy to recognize it for what it is, IF the person knows and understands the basics of God's nature: God is no respector of persons. God doesn't love his sons more than he loves his daughters.
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

Gazelam wrote:Why in the world would any of the General Authorities want Polygamy to go away? This is a ridiculous statement. Jason backed me up on another thread, so I hate to call him on this one, but that's ridiculous. Polygamy is a righteous Doctrine, it tests and stretchs and grows the participants to being closer to God and gaining a further understanding of heavenly things. Any declaration to the contrary is false. People who uphold their covenants are always blessed. Re-read section 132 again, those are the words of the Savior on the matter, and anything contrary is false.


Feel free to call me on anything Gazelam. You seem like a really nice fellow. I think the LDS Church has lots of great stuff but plural marriage is and was not one of them. I believe it was a huge mistake and is what led to Joseph Smith's death. The LDS Church is the most anti-polygmay group out there these days.

Jason
_Southern Redneck
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Post by _Southern Redneck »

Jason Bourne wrote: I think the LDS Church has lots of great stuff but plural marriage is and was not one of them.


I agree. There is a lot of good int he LDS church, but there is in most churches.


Jason Bourne wrote: The LDS Church is the most anti-polygmay group out there these days.

This is wrong and you damn well know it is not true. For PR purposes they talk a lot, but how much money has the church spent to help people fleeing these other Mormon groups? What outreach have they performed that did not involve news cameras for free PR?

Do guys still get married to multiple wives in the temple? More then two means plural.

so no. The LDS church is NOT by any stretch of the imagination the "most anti-polygamy group" out there by a long shot.
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

I think the LDS Church has lots of great stuff but plural marriage is and was not one of them.

I agree. There is a lot of good in he LDS church, but there is in most churches.



I agree.

Jason Bourne wrote: The LDS Church is the most anti-polygamy group out there these days.

This is wrong and you damn well know it is not true. For PR purposes they talk a lot, but how much money has the church spent to help people fleeing these other Mormon groups? What outreach have they performed that did not involve news cameras for free PR?



I think you misunderstand. I did not mean that in a complimentary way. The LDS Church today wants polygamy to go away. The wretch when the fundies are compared to or linked to the main LDS Church. They wish polygamy never happened and really pretty don't like it. I bet the leaders are nervous about any law that might make it legal because then what do they do. See what I mean? They want to run as far away from polygamy as they can, well accept for the next life. But for real time, they just do not like it at all. The down play it, want to pretend it was not what it really was. Bad. And a big mistake.

An yea, I agree that much of it has to do with image.

Do guys still get married to multiple wives in the temple? More then two means plural.


Well yea only if the past wife it dead.

so no. The LDS church is NOT by any stretch of the imagination the "most anti-polygamy group" out there by a long shot


Well yea, they really are, at least in the way I explained above. Do you get it now?

Jason
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