Ted Haggard's Hypocrisy.

[_Jersey Girl]

Ray,

I just got back in and read your post as well as the link you provided from FoxNews. The outcome, of course, is not what I had hoped to read. The report states that he is going to issue a statement to his congregation tomorrow that will be read in both services.

My prediction remains the same. I think he will lay his cards on the table full out. I am certain that he already has in connection with the Overseer board.

Jersey Girl

[_Ray A]

And yet, he continued to lie about it, even in the face of witnesses against him, until the day he died. And still today he is idolized, revered, almost worshipped.

Why then do you still belong to the church founded by a liar? You still attend, don't you?

I guess the early Saints wanted to believe so much, and invested so much into the religion, leaving family, friends, neighbors to follow Joseph, they were willing to listen to his lies.

As I pointed out, many didn't. And the subject of polygamy caused enormous problems. They were not all following without question. Emma being polygamy's greatest foe.

I see a lot of comparisons. I guess that's why we don't walk around in the same skin.

That's true.

[_Ray A]

Jersey Girl,

I can see the personal insights you have, regarding his wife, children, family. I am only looking at a man in public life who was condemning of homosexuality while apparently practising it, and in a very high position within a large organisation of people who implicitly trusted him. I think it's only natural to feel the way you do, having met the man, and you've given me some insights. Unfortunately, he will have to pay a big price, but I'll remember what you said.

[_justthinking55]

I think Evangelicals will survive this. Maybe they should take a leaf out of Billy Grahams' book. He knows the effect of what his fall would mean,. never counsels women alone, has staff check his hotel room and has a board look after the finances. There are thousends of Evangelical leaders who would fill the position.. Maybe somone from the Evangelical Left like Jim Wallis would be good.

[_RAJ]

Sorry for asking but what does this guy have to do with Mormonism? This is a "Mormon discussions" forum. This belongs in the Off-Topic forum which is: "The forum to discuss politics, hobbies, or anything else non-LDS related."

This guy is a moron but he's NOT a Mormon.

Nort

Okay so here's Haggard on Mormonism --- From an Oct 10 LA Times article on Romney:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... &cset=true

"...A favorite Romney quip is that in his church, "marriage is between a man and a woman and a woman and a woman."

This laugh line, and his reluctance to delve deeper into his beliefs, only add to the mystery of a faith that many Americans associate with polygamy — although that practice has long been outlawed by the church — and with customs such as marrying people after they have died and converting the dead.

"Evangelicals are appalled by all that," said Pastor Ted Haggard, president of the National Assn. of Evangelicals in Colorado Springs, Colo. "We evangelicals view Mormons as a Christian cult group. A cult group is a group that claims exclusive revelation. And typically, it's hard to get out of these cult groups. And so Mormonism qualifies as that."

In addition, Haggard said, evangelicals do not accept Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith as a prophet. "And we do not believe that the Book of Mormon has the same level of authority as the Bible," he said.

When Romney says that he accepts Jesus Christ as his savior, "we appreciate that," Haggard said. "But very often when people like Mormons use terms that we also use, there are different meanings in the theology behind those terms."

[_Nortinski]

Do we have to know the details of how a FAIRboard partipicant wipes their ass?

Don't be silly, we all know FAIRboard partipicants never wipe.

Nort

[_Ray A]

Do we have to know the details of how a FAIRboard partipicant wipes their ass?

Don't be silly, we all know FAIRboard partipicants never wipe.

Nort

Yeah Nort, I get ya.

[_Jersey Girl]

Ray,

He owned it. You can read both Ted and his wife Gayles statements by using the following link to New LIfe. The links to their statements are in the upper right hand of the screen. Both are pdf, sorry...I don't know how to copy and paste from pdf...


http://www.newlifechurch.org/

[_Ray A]

Ray,

He owned it. You can read both Ted and his wife Gayles statements by using the following link to New LIfe. The links to their statements are in the upper right hand of the screen. Both are pdf, sorry...I don't know how to copy and paste from pdf...


http://www.newlifechurch.org/

Here is the copy:

November 5, 2006

My Dear New Life Church Family,

I am so sorry. I am sorry for the disappointment, the betrayal, and the hurt. I am sorry for

the horrible example I have set for you.

I have an overwhelming, all-consuming sadness in my heart for the pain that you and I

and my family have experienced over the past few days. I am so sorry for the

circumstances that have caused shame and embarrassment to all of you.

I asked that this note be read to you this morning so I could clarify my heart's condition

to you. The last four days have been so difficult for me, my family and all of you, and I


have further confused the situation with some of the things I've said during interviews

with reporters who would catch me coming or going from my home. But I alone am

responsible for the confusion caused by my inconsistent statements. The fact is, I am

guilty of sexual immorality, and I take responsibility for the entire problem.

I am a deceiver and a liar. There is a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I’ve

been warring against it all of my adult life. For extended periods of time, I would enjoy

victory and rejoice in freedom. Then, from time to time, the dirt that I thought was gone

would resurface, and I would find myself thinking thoughts and experiencing desires that

were contrary to everything I believe and teach.

Through the years, I’ve sought assistance in a variety of ways, with none of them proving

to be effective in me. Then, because of pride, I began deceiving those I love the most

because I didn’t want to hurt or disappoint them.

The public person I was wasn’t a lie; it was just incomplete. When I stopped

communicating about my problems, the darkness increased and finally dominated me. As

a result, I did things that were contrary to everything I believe.

The accusations that have been leveled against me are not all true, but enough of them are

true that I have been appropriately and lovingly removed from ministry. Our church's

overseers have required me to submit to the oversight of Dr. James Dobson, Pastor Jack

Hayford, and Pastor Tommy Barnett. Those men will perform a thorough analysis of my

mental, spiritual, emotional, and physical life. They will guide me through a program

with the goal of healing and restoration for my life, my marriage, and my family.

I created this entire situation. The things that I did opened the door for additional

allegations. But I am responsible; I alone need to be disciplined and corrected. An

example must be set.

It is important that you know how much I love and appreciate my wife, Gayle. What I did

should never reflect in a negative way on her relationship with me. She has been and

continues to be incredible. The problem was not with her, my children, or any of you. It

was created 100% by me.

I have been permanently removed from the office of Senior Pastor of New Life Church.

Until a new senior pastor is chosen, our Associate Senior Pastor, Ross Parsley, will

assume all of the responsibilities of the office. On the day he accepted this new role, he

and his wife, Aimee, had a new baby boy. A new life in the midst of this circumstance—I

consider that confluence of events to be prophetic. Please commit to join with Pastor

Ross and the others in church leadership to make their service to you easy and without

burden. They are fine leaders. You are blessed.

I appreciate your loving and forgiving nature, and I humbly ask you to do a few things:

1. Please stay faithful to God through service and giving.

2. Please forgive me. I am so embarrassed and ashamed. I caused this and I have no

excuse. I am a sinner. I have fallen. I desperately need to be forgiven and healed.

3. Please forgive my accuser. He is revealing the deception and sensuality that was

in my life. Those sins, and others, need to be dealt with harshly. So, forgive him

and, actually, thank God for him. I am trusting that his actions will make me, my

wife and family, and ultimately all of you, stronger. He didn’t violate you; I did.

4. Please stay faithful to each other. Perform your functions well. Encourage each

other and rejoice in God’s faithfulness. Our church body is a beautiful body, and

like every family, our strength is tested and proven in the midst of adversity.

Because of the negative publicity I’ve created with my foolishness, we can now

demonstrate to the world how our sick and wounded can be healed, and how even

disappointed and betrayed church bodies can prosper and rejoice.

Gayle and I need to be gone for a while. We will never return to a leadership role at

New Life Church. In our hearts, we will always be members of this body. We love

you as our family. I know this situation will put you to the test. I’m sorry I’ve created

the test, but please rise to this challenge and demonstrate the incredible grace that is

available to all of us.

Ted Haggard

[_Jersey Girl]

Ray,

Thank you for posting his message. What are is your impression of his statement? And could you also post his wife's message?

Jersey Girl