Angel to Money Digging

[_Gazelam]

There is a large part of the Book dedicated to this.

Joseph did use the Stone in moneydigging. It was this treasure seeking that kept Joseph from receiving the Book of Mormon, its why he was shocked when he reached for it, according to the Book.

Its important to note I think that Joseph was told by the Lord that he had to stop the moneydigging and his desire for earthly treasures before he could begin his work. He had to purify himself and overcome the world. This is the same for all of us. A lesson to be learned.

Joseph eventually didn't need tthe stone to translate the plates. he had learned through the stone to translate on his own. And Joseph was also told by the Lord that he would never be rich, that he was made to always be poor, but rich in spirit. I think this was to keep him humble, which he himself said was always a struggle due to the nature of his calling as a leader.

Gaz

[_ajax18]

The only thing I ever read about money digging seeing as I haven't researched non LDS approved literature is in this scripture. I get the impression from reading this scripture that the only reason Joseph was involved in money digging was that he was hired out to do it. If that's all there was to it, than big deal, I'm sure a lot of good people have been employed by less than honest people before.

My question is how does the research differ from the picture Joseph Smith paints in Joseph Smith history?

[_Henry Jacobs]

The only thing I ever read about money digging seeing as I haven't researched non LDS approved literature is in this scripture.

Don't take this wrong, but if we limited our reading to products from the NorthPole Press, we could convince ourselves there is a Santa Claus, since that is what our parents taught us in our formative years. Is it possible that what you believe is a direct result of the filters you've put on your information intake? Who taught us to put those filters on, and why?

There is a lot to the story of Joseph's moneydigging.

Start with this: Joseph worked "in company" with a group of moneydiggers, and he was not there because he could wield a shovel and pickaxe. That doesn't come from scriptures, but if you don't mind reading from Joseph's mother and friends' recollections, you can get a much fuller view of history.

[_Runtu]

The only thing I ever read about money digging seeing as I haven't researched non LDS approved literature is in this scripture.

Don't take this wrong, but if we limited our reading to products from the NorthPole Press, we could convince ourselves there is a Santa Claus, since that is what our parents taught us in our formative years. Is it possible that what you believe is a direct result of the filters you've put on your information intake? Who taught us to put those filters on, and why?

There is a lot to the story of Joseph's moneydigging.

Start with this: Joseph worked "in company" with a group of moneydiggers, and he was not there because he could wield a shovel and pickaxe. That doesn't come from scriptures, but if you don't mind reading from Joseph's mother and friends' recollections, you can get a much fuller view of history.

What I find fascinating is Bushman's treatment of the money digging. First, he tells us that most of it was instigated by Joseph's father, and Joseph reluctantly went along with it, seer stone in hand. But what's amazing is how Bushman tells us that once Joseph got involved with the Book of Mormon, his involvement with folk magic and the supernatural ended. This despite Joseph's having used the same stone to find treasure that he used to translate the Book of Mormon.

However you slice it, Joseph's peepstoning, moneydigging activities are very much related to his later work as translator and prophet.

[_ajax18]

I know I sound very ignorant on the subject which I am, but I haven't really put filters on my information intake. I just don't have Bushman's book. His books aren't free like Book of Mormons and to have it around reading it would cause contention in the family. I wondered if any of you cared to fill me in how Joseph's money digging activities are different than what is described in "The North Pole Press." Also, do apologists recognize these other sources and try to explain why "North Pole Press" paints a different picture or do they just say that everything else is a lie?

[_Runtu]

I know I sound very ignorant on the subject which I am, but I haven't really put filters on my information intake. I just don't have Bushman's book. His books aren't free like Book of Mormons and to have it around reading it would cause contention in the family. I wondered if any of you cared to fill me in how Joseph's money digging activities are different than what is described in "The North Pole Press." Also, do apologists recognize these other sources and try to explain why "North Pole Press" paints a different picture or do they just say that everything else is a lie?

Here's Dale Morgan's excellent summary of the money digging and its background:

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/da ... m#Chapter2

And it's free. :-)

[_Henry Jacobs]

I know I sound very ignorant on the subject which I am, but I haven't really put filters on my information intake. I just don't have Bushman's book. His books aren't free like Book of Mormons and to have it around reading it would cause contention in the family. I wondered if any of you cared to fill me in how Joseph's money digging activities are different than what is described in "The North Pole Press." Also, do apologists recognize these other sources and try to explain why "North Pole Press" paints a different picture or do they just say that everything else is a lie?

"Everything else is a lie", is popular. Bushman will say that Joseph's peepstoning was a way for God to prepare him for future prophethood. You have to decide what is most plausible after you get as complete a picture of Joseph as possible.

I admire your curiosity, and thanks for baring my slightly cheesy analagy about Santa. From my experience most of the filters are not brought on by ourselves. They are enforcements of group control mechanisms. "having(Rough Stone Rolling) around reading it would cause contention in the family" indicates one very powerful information filter that you didn't put on yourself. Yet you have to try and satisfy your thirst for knowlege without rocking your family boat.

That is a balancing act that is different for everyone. Good luck, from someone who lives in a very wobbly canoe. Dang, another cheesy one!

[_Jason Bourne]

Does certain behavior bring into question one's proclaimed call to prophethood?

Yes it could.

There have been prophets since humans first conceived of a higher power. Problem is their deity only tells them about the calling and no one else. So everyone is left to either believe or reject their claim to a calling, based on the person's behavior and track record of honesty. One who makes such an extraordinary claim, had better have extraordinary integrity and honesty to back it up, no?

This is indeed the problem with very few receiving alleged divine intervention and guidance.

Prophethood doesn't require any certain behavior, except for one. Complete and utter, 100% honesty in all matters. Why would god accept any less? Why would he call someone with a weakness for misleading people, or telling "righteous lies". How does it serve God's purposes, if a miniscule number of people will ever believe his prophet's words unless they've been indoctrinated from birth to do so?

Well the presumption is the Joseph or any other prophet were conistantly misleading. And God might expect more but people are human. In what areas do you think Smith lied? I think his life was fairly open and honest but for the polygamy issue. Of course, that assumes that his claims of supernatural intervention were true stories.

Why would he call someone with no more or less integrity than all the other pretenders the world has seen?

So it is your position that all prophets are/were pretenders and Joseph Smith had less integrity then all the others?

Jason

[_Runtu]

Well the presumption is the Joseph or any other prophet were conistantly misleading. And God might expect more but people are human. In what areas do you think Smith lied? I think his life was fairly open and honest but for the polygamy issue. Of course, that assumes that his claims of supernatural intervention were true stories.

Open and honest? Are we talking about the same Joseph Smith?

The man seemed consumed with the need for secrecy.

Made-up names in the D&C.
Secret meetings of the Council of Fifty (indeed, the organization's existence was a carefully guarded secret)
His secret anointing as king of the world.
Secret (I mean "sacred") temple ceremonies with death oaths for those who might be tempted to reveal them.

I don't know. I'm not seeing the open book version of Joseph. I'm seeing the one who rightly said, "No man knows my history."

[_Jason Bourne]

Well the presumption is the Joseph or any other prophet were conistantly misleading. And God might expect more but people are human. In what areas do you think Smith lied? I think his life was fairly open and honest but for the polygamy issue. Of course, that assumes that his claims of supernatural intervention were true stories.

Open and honest? Are we talking about the same Joseph Smith?

The man seemed consumed with the need for secrecy.

Made-up names in the D&C.
Secret meetings of the Council of Fifty (indeed, the organization's existence was a carefully guarded secret)
His secret anointing as king of the world.
Secret (I mean "sacred") temple ceremonies with death oaths for those who might be tempted to reveal them.

I don't know. I'm not seeing the open book version of Joseph. I'm seeing the one who rightly said, "No man knows my history."

Secret names were for safety reasons. But yes, I would add that after plural marraige the Nauvoo period became a period of subtefuge and secrecy.

Jason