I agree with others here. It's an odd talk. Perhaps it's an example that came to mind to him from his years in practice? If you ask most people, they have an image of lawyers as being high-powered and driven, long hours, etc. I know plenty of women attorneys and I can't picture what he means - unless it's a transgendered female attorney that hasn't finished the process yet: either an attorney that is still-male but is on his way to becoming a female or a still-female attorney on her way be becoming a male. <g>
Not one of his better ones.
What exactly is a female "manly lawyer"? .....
Steadying the Ark.
God gives authority to those he deems worthy to forward his great work. The saying "steadying the ark is derived from two sources.
The first is an understanding of authority. Num. 1:50-53 which reads:
50 But thou shalt appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of testimony, and over all the vessels thereof, and over all things that belong to it: they shall bear the tabernacle, and all the vessels thereof; and they shall minister unto it, and shall encamp round about the tabernacle.
51 And when the tabernacle setteth forward, the Levites shall take it down: and when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
52 And the children of Israel shall pitch their tents, every man by his own camp, and every man by his own standard, throughout their hosts.
53 But the Levites shall pitch round about the tabernacle of testimony, that there be no wrath upon the congregation of the children of Israel: and the Levites shall keep the charge of the tabernacle of testimony.
So we see that God appointed the Levites to a position of authority and gave them duties to perform. One has to wonder how many others of the camp of Israel thought that they had been slighted by God and passed over, feeling more worthy than those chosen to stand at the tabernacle.
next we go to 2 Sam. 6, specifically vs. 6-8
6 ¶ And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
8 And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzzah: and he called the name of the place *Perez-uzzah to this day.
(*Breach of Uzzah)
So we see that those not appointed are not to have dealings out of their place. Just as a Bishop from another ward has no bussiness in counceling a member not under his care, neither does a member of the church have bussiness counceling a Bishop, or that is to say, speaking ill of the Lords anointed. Neither does a member of the church have any bussiness sending letters to the prophet on how she/he feels the church should be run. The Lord is in charge of his church and his people. He has appointed those he deems worthy to run it and be its caretaker. Neither the Lord nor the Prophet has need of councel from the General Assembly.
See also 1 Chr. 13, also D&C 85:8
Gaz
The first is an understanding of authority. Num. 1:50-53 which reads:
50 But thou shalt appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of testimony, and over all the vessels thereof, and over all things that belong to it: they shall bear the tabernacle, and all the vessels thereof; and they shall minister unto it, and shall encamp round about the tabernacle.
51 And when the tabernacle setteth forward, the Levites shall take it down: and when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
52 And the children of Israel shall pitch their tents, every man by his own camp, and every man by his own standard, throughout their hosts.
53 But the Levites shall pitch round about the tabernacle of testimony, that there be no wrath upon the congregation of the children of Israel: and the Levites shall keep the charge of the tabernacle of testimony.
So we see that God appointed the Levites to a position of authority and gave them duties to perform. One has to wonder how many others of the camp of Israel thought that they had been slighted by God and passed over, feeling more worthy than those chosen to stand at the tabernacle.
next we go to 2 Sam. 6, specifically vs. 6-8
6 ¶ And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
8 And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzzah: and he called the name of the place *Perez-uzzah to this day.
(*Breach of Uzzah)
So we see that those not appointed are not to have dealings out of their place. Just as a Bishop from another ward has no bussiness in counceling a member not under his care, neither does a member of the church have bussiness counceling a Bishop, or that is to say, speaking ill of the Lords anointed. Neither does a member of the church have any bussiness sending letters to the prophet on how she/he feels the church should be run. The Lord is in charge of his church and his people. He has appointed those he deems worthy to run it and be its caretaker. Neither the Lord nor the Prophet has need of councel from the General Assembly.
See also 1 Chr. 13, also D&C 85:8
Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
Re: Steadying the Ark.
Gaz,
What you're essentially saying is that it's a top-down church, and the people at the bottom need to listen and not question, not think for themselves.
Have you ever read BKP's talk to the all-church coordinating council? In that talk, he says we need to all be facing the same direction so that the light from the brethren will come over our shoulders. But notice that to do so, we must turn away from the light. Something to think about.
What you're essentially saying is that it's a top-down church, and the people at the bottom need to listen and not question, not think for themselves.
Have you ever read BKP's talk to the all-church coordinating council? In that talk, he says we need to all be facing the same direction so that the light from the brethren will come over our shoulders. But notice that to do so, we must turn away from the light. Something to think about.
If we are facing the same direction, we are all facing the light. I don't see your point your trying to make.
Lets say your right, and we should be able to council those in position of authority over us. What woudl you council the Father to do to better play out the plan of salvation? How do oyu feel Christ could have better worked out the Atonement? What should Moses of done to stop the children of Israel from worshipping the Golden calf? What should President Hinkley say today to bring people unto Christ better?
Gaz
Lets say your right, and we should be able to council those in position of authority over us. What woudl you council the Father to do to better play out the plan of salvation? How do oyu feel Christ could have better worked out the Atonement? What should Moses of done to stop the children of Israel from worshipping the Golden calf? What should President Hinkley say today to bring people unto Christ better?
Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
Gazelam wrote:If we are facing the same direction, we are all facing the light. I don't see your point your trying to make.
Lets say your right, and we should be able to council those in position of authority over us. What woudl you council the Father to do to better play out the plan of salvation? How do oyu feel Christ could have better worked out the Atonement? What should Moses of done to stop the children of Israel from worshipping the Golden calf? What should President Hinkley say today to bring people unto Christ better?
Gaz
I take it you're not familiar with Packer's talk. He says if we turn and face the light, we'll be blinded, but if we all face the same way, away from the light, then our leaders can show us the way.
What does it mean to counsel those in a position of authority? Jesus said the greatest of all is the servant of all. In today's church, there are no mechanisms whatsoever to report abuse by church leaders at all. None. Remember that we are taught that if our leaders tell us to do something that is wrong, we should do it anyway and the sin will be on them. That's a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.
Boyd K. Packers talk
Excerpt form end:
"The one who supposes that he "understands the mind-set of both groups" needs to understand that the doctrines of the gospel are revealed through the Spirit to prophets, not through the intellect to scholars.
Only when they have some knowledge of the plan of redemption will they understand the supposed inequities of life. Only then will they understand the commandments God has given us. If we do not teach the plan of redemption, whatever else we do by way of programs and activities and instructions will not be enough.
"God gave unto them commandments, after having made known unto them the plan of redemption." We face invasions of the intensity and seriousness that we have not faced before. There is the need now to be united with everyone facing the same way. Then the sunlight of truth, coming over our shoulders, will mark the path ahead. If we perchance turn the wrong way, we will shade our eyes from that light and we will fail in our ministries. "
I had actually read that talk before. The comment you mentioned makes sence when the talk is read in full.
Here is the talk: http://www.zionsbest.com/face.html
"The one who supposes that he "understands the mind-set of both groups" needs to understand that the doctrines of the gospel are revealed through the Spirit to prophets, not through the intellect to scholars.
Only when they have some knowledge of the plan of redemption will they understand the supposed inequities of life. Only then will they understand the commandments God has given us. If we do not teach the plan of redemption, whatever else we do by way of programs and activities and instructions will not be enough.
"God gave unto them commandments, after having made known unto them the plan of redemption." We face invasions of the intensity and seriousness that we have not faced before. There is the need now to be united with everyone facing the same way. Then the sunlight of truth, coming over our shoulders, will mark the path ahead. If we perchance turn the wrong way, we will shade our eyes from that light and we will fail in our ministries. "
I had actually read that talk before. The comment you mentioned makes sence when the talk is read in full.
Here is the talk: http://www.zionsbest.com/face.html
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
Quote:
I knew very little about housework; I didn’t even know how to match socks. Elder Oaks wears only two colors -- black and blue. I called my married sister in tears and asked how to sort them and she told me to go stand by the window.
How the Hell many different ways are there to sort socks?
And Holy Cow, I would LOVE IT if my life were so easy that something as trivial as matching socks was the trauma which caused me to shed tears.
Maybe she was in tears cuz she knew she'd get a good beating if she didn't do it right?
Re: Boyd K. Packers talk
Gazelam wrote:Excerpt form end:
"The one who supposes that he "understands the mind-set of both groups" needs to understand that the doctrines of the gospel are revealed through the Spirit to prophets, not through the intellect to scholars.
Only when they have some knowledge of the plan of redemption will they understand the supposed inequities of life. Only then will they understand the commandments God has given us. If we do not teach the plan of redemption, whatever else we do by way of programs and activities and instructions will not be enough.
"God gave unto them commandments, after having made known unto them the plan of redemption." We face invasions of the intensity and seriousness that we have not faced before. There is the need now to be united with everyone facing the same way. Then the sunlight of truth, coming over our shoulders, will mark the path ahead. If we perchance turn the wrong way, we will shade our eyes from that light and we will fail in our ministries. "
I had actually read that talk before. The comment you mentioned makes sence when the talk is read in full.
Here is the talk: http://www.zionsbest.com/face.html
I was in attendance at that talk. I think that's the day I realized that Packer was not a man of God.
Re: Boyd K. Packers talk
Gazelam wrote: "Then the sunlight of truth, coming over our shoulders, will mark the path ahead. If we perchance turn the wrong way, we will shade our eyes from that light and we will fail in our ministries. "
It is a good thing he has some back lighting in the photo then.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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beastie wrote:Quote:
I knew very little about housework; I didn’t even know how to match socks. Elder Oaks wears only two colors -- black and blue. I called my married sister in tears and asked how to sort them and she told me to go stand by the window.
How the Hell many different ways are there to sort socks?
And Holy Cow, I would LOVE IT if my life were so easy that something as trivial as matching socks was the trauma which caused me to shed tears.
Maybe she was in tears cuz she knew she'd get a good beating if she didn't do it right?
Ouch. Well, lately it is does seem as if the GAs' wives have had to undergo and undo amount of suffering. I'm sure everyone remembers Elder Christofferson's Conference talk on how his mother endured horrible pain while doing the ironing, and was made to feel like less of a proper TBM female, etc.