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OK, so while a missionary I was pretty much told that Joe had plural wives, possibly had sex with them but it didn't really matter because God had ordained the "blessed raping".

The necrodunking thing got me thinking about public vs private opinions shared. A Mormon will tell a nonmormon that joe didn't have polygamous relationships, was a caring person, etc.

Among Mormons though, they will discuss joes real side. The "righteous vengeance" joe unleashed on "those damn missourians", etc.

In public Joe can do no wrong while in private Mormons are justified doing the things that a Mormon would say never happened.

Brigham young didn't order the MMM but on the other hnd smiles and gleeful expressions are shared among the faithful when speaking of the "justified slaughter".

This is the definition of institutionalised hypocrisy.

Brigham young didn't order the MMM but on the other hnd smiles and gleeful expressions are shared among the faithful when speaking of the "justified slaughter".

Which "faithful" are you having conversations with? I've never spoken with anyone who smiled or shared gleeful expressions regarding MMM.

liz3564 wrote:

Brigham young didn't order the MMM but on the other hnd smiles and gleeful expressions are shared among the faithful when speaking of the "justified slaughter".

Which "faithful" are you having conversations with? I've never spoken with anyone who smiled or shared gleeful expressions regarding MMM.

Missionaries, bishops, stake presidents. How about Bloody Brigham?

http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/program ... untain.htm

Four years later, Brigham Young stopped at Mountain Meadows. Federal troops, outraged at the massacre, had erected a makeshift monument to those who had been murdered. On it were the words, "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, and I will repay." Young gazed at it for a time, then ordered the monument torn down. "Vengeance is mine," he muttered, "and I have taken a little."

Missionaries, bishops, stake presidents.

So you're honestly telling me that missionaries, bishops, and stake presidents in your current area feel that MMM was justified?

liz3564 wrote:

Missionaries, bishops, stake presidents.

So you're honestly telling me that missionaries, bishops, and stake presidents in your current area feel that MMM was justified?

Why do you compartmentalize?

liz3564 wrote:

Brigham young didn't order the MMM but on the other hnd smiles and gleeful expressions are shared among the faithful when speaking of the "justified slaughter".

Which "faithful" are you having conversations with? I've never spoken with anyone who smiled or shared gleeful expressions regarding MMM.

I believe he's referring to Brigham Young's 1861 visit to Mountain Meadows, where BY read this inscription on Carleton's cairn monument: "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." According to Wilford Woodruff (who was there), BY then said aloud that the inscription should read: "Vengeance is mine, and I have taken a little."

EDITED TO ADD:

Sorry, but VR beat me to the punch. I apologize for the duplicate information.

VegasRefugee wrote:

liz3564 wrote:

Missionaries, bishops, stake presidents.

So you're honestly telling me that missionaries, bishops, and stake presidents in your current area feel that MMM was justified?

Why do you compartmentalize?

I'm not trying to compartmentalize. I'm honestly trying to understand your statement. You've gone on two different tracks here. You were talking about Brigham Young's view, and then you were making a general statement about modern members. I'm not trying to criticize. I was reading your statement with my mouth open. It's hard for me to believe that there are modern members of the Church who actually believe that MMM was a good thing. I wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying.

liz3564 wrote:

VegasRefugee wrote:

liz3564 wrote:

Missionaries, bishops, stake presidents.

So you're honestly telling me that missionaries, bishops, and stake presidents in your current area feel that MMM was justified?

Why do you compartmentalize?

I'm not trying to compartmentalize. I'm honestly trying to understand your statement. You've gone on two different tracks here. You were talking about Brigham Young's view, and then you were making a general statement about modern members. I'm not trying to criticize. I was reading your statement with my mouth open. It's hard for me to believe that there are modern members of the Church who actually believe that MMM was a good thing. I wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying.

Unless I am mistaken, Pahoran is one of those modern members who more or less approves of the MMM slaughter.

liz3564 wrote:It's hard for me to believe that there are modern members of the Church who actually believe that MMM was a good thing.

I don't know of anyone who claims it was a "good" thing, but I do know some who have tried to justify the massacre, for which, in my opinion, there was no justification.

Unless I am mistaken, Pahoran is one of those modern members who more or less approves of the MMM slaughter.

LOL Pahoran doesn't count. He's an Internet Mormon like we are. He's just radical the other way. ;)

I'm talking about "real life" modern members. I thought that was what Vegas was referring to.

Also...my understanding is that the LDS stance on this is that MMM was a horrible incident and shouldn't have happened. That there was miscommunication between what Brigham Young wanted, and what actually occurred and that Brigham Young tried to stop MMM from happening, but the communication didn't arrive in time. I also thought that the statement prior mentioned by Brigham Young is up for grabs as to whether or not it actually occurred.

I'm not saying this is the correct stance...I'm saying that this is the stance I've heard from TBM's I've spoken with regarding this.

I am honestly not up on the history of MMM, so I can't really speak to it.

My shock was simply the statement Vegas made regarding the fact that there were members he had actually spoken to who honestly thought that MMM was a justifiable incident, and a proper incident to have happened. I have never heard anyone in the Church say such things. I'm not doubting that this could have happened. I'm just shocked by it.