Does the Church dislike single adult People???

[_Brackite]

Does the Church really dislike single adult People???
Does the high up leadersip of the LDS Church dislike single adult People (especially single men) above the age of 30 years old??? When I was on my Mission, I would hear that any man who is not married by the time that man has reached the age of 30 years old, than that man is sinning. I heard from my Mission President that a man who is not married when he is 30 years of age, then he is living in sin. And here is what the LDS Apostle Dallin H. Oaks has proclaimed and declared at an Young Adult Fireside over an year ago:

1. The cultural tides in our world run strongly against commitment in family relationships...Divorce has been made legally easy, and childbearing has become unpopular.

2. The leveling effect of the women's movement has contributed to discourage dating. As women's options have increased and some women have become more aggressive, some men have become reluctant to take traditional male initiatives, such as asking for dates, lest they be thought to qualify for the dreaded label "male chauvinist."

3. Hanging out is glamorized on TV programs about singles.

4. The meaning and significance of a "date" has changed in such a way as to price dating out of the market... a date has to be an expensive production.

5. For many years, the church has counseled people not to date before age 16. Perhaps some young adults, especially men, have carried that wise counsel to excess and determined not to date before 26 or maybe even 36.

(Bold Emphais Mine)

And Dallin H. Oaks also proclaimed:

Men, if you have returned from your mission and you are still following the boy-girl patterns you were counseled to follow when you were 15, it is time to grow up. Gather your courage and look for someone to pair off with. Start with a variety of dates with a variety of young women, and when that phase yields a good prospect, proceed to courtship. It's marriage time. That is what the Lord intends for His young adult sons and daughters. Men have the initiative, and you men should get on with it.

My single young friends, we counsel you to channel your associations with the opposite sex into dating patterns that have the potential to mature into marriage, not hanging-out patterns that only have the prospect to mature into team sports like touch football. Marriage is not a group activity--at least, not until the children come along in goodly numbers.

(Bold Emphais Mine.)

Wow, it seems like that Dallin H. Oaks strongly dislikes the adult single men within the Church. Not everybody is able to get married really young like you did Mr. Dallin H. Oaks. The Church teaches its Missionaries that they should Not be dating at all when they our out on their Mission for two whole years, but yet once they get home from their Missions, the Church wants these recently returned Missionaries to start dating right away, and try to get marry pretty soon. If an young single man is not able to get married before he is 30 years of age (even thogugh he went on a Mission), the Church ends up usually ostracizing him. I do think that the LDS Church does Not like single men over the age of 30 years old.

[_Runtu]

Single adults are simply not part of the plan of salvation, and the church doesn't know what to do with these aspiring "ministering angels."

[_truth dancer]

Hi Brackite... :-)

1. The cultural tides in our world run strongly against commitment in family relationships...Divorce has been made legally easy, and childbearing has become unpopular.

I think young people are wanting to be more responsible in having children. We know children do better with more involved parenting from fathers; it is extremely expensive to raise children these days... better to take care of them than to have them and not provide for the physical, emotional, spiritual, needs.

2

. The leveling effect of the women's movement has contributed to discourage dating.

AHHHHHHHHHHH BLAMING WOMEN AGAIN! If only women would be content washing dishes and cleaning floors the world's problems would cease! AARRGGHH!!! If women would just stop wanting to be on a level plane as men all would be well!

As women's options have increased and some women have become more aggressive, some men have become reluctant to take traditional male initiatives, such as asking for dates, lest they be thought to qualify for the dreaded label "male chauvinist."

Nonsense. Again, seems if women would just stop getting an education, stop being "aggressive" men would be fine. I have yet to hear of one woman who calls a guy chauvinist because he asks her out.

3. Hanging out is glamorized on TV programs about singles.

I still don't see what is wrong with this. Some people just aren't ready to get married when they are eighteen.

4. The meaning and significance of a "date" has changed in such a way as to price dating out of the market... a date has to be an expensive production.

I've never seen this at all... my observation is that dating

is more casual not less.

5. For many years, the church has counseled people not to date before age 16. Perhaps some young adults, especially men, have carried that wise counsel to excess and determined not to date before 26 or maybe even 36.

Yes, the church wants people married; particularly men. I think BY started this whole thing when he told young men they were a menace to society if they weren't married by age 25. (I suppose it didn't occur to him that young men couldn't get married because the older men had already married all the young women but oh well..). :-)

I think the church just has a difficult time dealing with those who don't follow the normal path of things... ya know?

I'm hoping no one is rude or comes out and says something obnoxious to those men who aren't married but I don't really know.

~dancer~

[_Brackite]

Hi Truth dancer,

You wrote:

Yes, the church wants people married; particularly men. I think BY started this whole thing when he told young men they were a menace to society if they weren't married by age 25. (I suppose it didn't occur to him that young men couldn't get married because the older men had already married all the young women but oh well..). :-)

I think that Brigham Young stated that "Every man not married and over twenty-five is a menace to the community." And you are right about what was happening in regards to Polygamy back then. The older men were marrying the very young women back then. At least 12 plural wives of Brigham Young were more than 20 years younger than he was when BY married them.

You also wrote:

I think the church just has a difficult time dealing with those who don't follow the normal path of things... ya know?

I'm hoping no one is rude or comes out and says something obnoxious to those men who aren't married but I don't really know.

Yes, the Church does have a difficult time dealing with those who don't follow the normal path of things. The church wants the young men to go on two year Missions when they are 19 years of age, and not date at all for those two years. Then the Church wants those young men to start seriously dating right after they get off their Missions. The Church wants those young men to get married sometime within about six years after they get off their Missions. And then the Church wants those men to start a family right away with their new brides right after they get married. However, a married couple should be responsible before they decide to start having children, which you are very right about turth dancer. The Church looks upon men who are not married by the time they are 30 years old as kind of unworthy and second class citizens. I am sure that there have been rude remarks made to the single men within the Church over the age of 30 years old who are not married by those who are in Leadersip Positions within the LDS Church. In fact, I know that it has happened. The Church should Not ostracizing single men over the age of 30 years old, just because they still haven't got married yet.

[_Sam Harris]

I don't think the church leaders really appreciate the responsibility of it's young singles. All of the LDS friends I have are not married, and most are over 30. I think one is about to turn 30. How can you stress the importance of eternal marraige, and yet pressure your singles to go and get hitched to just anyone?

I think that there are many reasons why a person may not be married by age 30. First of all, these days that is normal. A generation ago you got married to get out of the house, women who worked were still an anomaly. You did it only if you had to. These days, higher education is much easier to get, and young people are much more eager to spend a part of their lives exploring their lives on their own. Is there something wrong with this in the church's eyes?

My closest LDS friend who is like a sister to me is about 33. She has traveled the world, she has worked with women in third world countries, seeking to better their lives. She's been engaged, but it didn't work out. I think that she is one of the most genuine people I know, and to be honest, that woman is my heart. I would not want to see her unhappy just because someone wants to see her married quickly. And I know she gets hammered for being single. Highly educated (going for her PhD), beautiful, kind, she has a lot to offer. But if she's getting married for what she sees to be an eternity, she has every right to wait until she is sure, just like every other single LDS.

I think perhaps the church wants to raise its membership levels by childbirth. But having a child doesn't guarantee that child will stay a member. Even my church reiterates that at baby dedications...which is why we don't baptize. The dedication is just the commitment of the parents to raise the child in a Christian home. It is up to that child if and whenever he or she chooses, to make the choice to be baptized.

[_Sam Harris]

AHHHHHHHHHHH BLAMING WOMEN AGAIN! If only women would be content washing dishes and cleaning floors the world's problems would cease! AARRGGHH!!! If women would just stop wanting to be on a level plane as men all would be well!

TD, don't you know? Barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen is where it's at!

*shakes head* LOL

[_moksha]

There is a situational quality to this: If the Church was still practicing polygamy, they would encourage young men of the non-royal* families to remain single so that more wives could be had for the polygamists.





*an imagined state of royalty - can you actually think of Orin Porter Rockwell as royal and not snicker?

[_Brackite]

Hi GIMR,

You wrote:

I don't think the church leaders really appreciate the responsibility of it's young singles. All of the LDS friends I have are not married, and most are over 30. I think one is about to turn 30. How can you stress the importance of eternal marraige, and yet pressure your singles to go and get hitched to just anyone?

I think that there are many reasons why a person may not be married by age 30. First of all, these days that is normal. A generation ago you got married to get out of the house, women who worked were still an anomaly. You did it only if you had to. These days, higher education is much easier to get, and young people are much more eager to spend a part of their lives exploring their lives on their own. Is there something wrong with this in the church's eyes?

Another reason why I think that a lot of people are not getting married young now, is because of the cost of living. It now costs a lot of money to provide for a spouse and a family. I remember hearing in Insitute that once you get married, you should start having children right away, even if you don't think you enough money to support a new child. Ahh, I missed the days of going to Institute. Anyway, I think that People should not be having any children, until they are emotionally and financially ready and responsible to have children.

[_Sam Harris]

Hi GIMR,

You wrote:

I don't think the church leaders really appreciate the responsibility of it's young singles. All of the LDS friends I have are not married, and most are over 30. I think one is about to turn 30. How can you stress the importance of eternal marraige, and yet pressure your singles to go and get hitched to just anyone?

I think that there are many reasons why a person may not be married by age 30. First of all, these days that is normal. A generation ago you got married to get out of the house, women who worked were still an anomaly. You did it only if you had to. These days, higher education is much easier to get, and young people are much more eager to spend a part of their lives exploring their lives on their own. Is there something wrong with this in the church's eyes?

Another reason why I think that a lot of people are not getting married young now, is because of the cost of living. It now costs a lot of money to provide for a spouse and a family. I remember hearing in Insitute that once you get married, you should start having children right away, even if you don't think you enough money to support a new child. Ahh, I missed the days of going to Institute. Anyway, I think that People should not be having any children, until they are emotionally and financially ready and responsible to have children.

Brackite, you are right. I believe DC is like number three in the country as far as the cost of living goes. And if the church is encouraging women to stay home, that's difficult. Apartments out here start at around $800 just for a good efficiency, and most jobs don't pay that much. You are also right that people should not have kids until they are emotionally and financially ready to do so, regardless of what church leaders may say.

It seems in this area most people aren't listening to them. The female LDS friends I have are too busy living their lives, one is an attorney, the other works in DC and is getting her PhD. They don't have time to settle down and have babies, and I don't blame them for wanting to achieve their dreams before they do. People should have children in happiness and fulfillment, not haste and neediness. That's where dysfunction comes in.

[_Mephitus]

I would say it comes down to that after a mission, people are at a point in their lives in which they are able to move out and live a life on their own. They are then only accountable to themselves. With a wife and family, other people can watch you and you can likewise watch them so they do not stray from the church. If someone has a chance to "find" themselves, they might start acting on the questions that i know fester within the VAST majority of Mormons.

So the sum of my argument comes down to free time. A single man/woman with free time might spend it productivly learning or improving himself, which might mean things away from the church.

EDIT: oh, and it should also be noted that the decline in converts and the very low retention rate would push leaders into wanting to raise members via any means required. Usualy this means indoctrinating the young children. And who makes better indoctrates than the children of young men and women who are children themselves?