For WWII experts....

[_truth dancer]

I have a question for those who may be knowledgeable about WWII.

Some time ago I watched a very interesting program on the History Channel regarding some Nazi rules, laws, and dynamics. One of the things that I found particularly interesting was the fact that at one point, Hitler required/demanded of his higher ups to go out and sleep with as many Caucasian women as possible to spread the "seed" of the more pure race.

I was astounded at this information which was very well documented but even more impressed with the leaders who actually refused to have affairs. These men (I think they were all SS troups) went against Hitler because they loved their wives and wanted to keep their marriage vows.

Now... of course I'm not suggesting these were great men. But at the time of the show I found myself comparing the men during the early days of the church who followed their leader (obtaining multiple women to further the seed) even though many suggested they did not want to do so, and these men who refused to do so, even though their lives were in danger.

Again, I am NOT suggesting one group of men is better than another... I'm interested in the dynamics of men following leaders, honoring their marriage, doing what they felt was right even if it meant going against leaders, etc. etc. etc.

Anyway... my question is, are any of you familiar with this aspect of the Nazi's? There was one man in particular (If I recall correctly) who was rather bold to Hitler and eventually Hitler backed down. I can't remember who this was...

Thanks for any information if anyone knows about what I am talking!

~dancer~

[_Dr. Shades]

I have a question for those who may be knowledgeable about WWII.

Take a look at my profile. WWII has been a deep interest of mine far longer than Mormonism has. Heck, while I'm on the subject, I own and have read more books on WWII than I have Mormonism. Do I qualify? :-)

Anyway... my question is, are any of you familiar with this aspect of the Nazi's?

Yes.

You're probably looking for more than a one-word answer, but I don't know what else you want to know. Before I go typing up multiple pages on the Lebensborn program, motherhood crosses, etc., is there anything specific you want to know more about?

[_truth dancer]

Hi Shades... yeah, I knew you were an expert! :-)

I didn't know if this whole Nazi, "spread your seed" incident was known by many because that one program was the only time I heard about it.

I'm REALLY fascinated with how and why people believe as they do and what compels some folks to follow a leader while others do not. Here we have SS troups (I think) killing jews but refusing to have affairs. In the early days of the church we have men who DID have affairs (call it what you will), and yet were otherwise most likely good men. Both situations, if I undestand it correctly were to spread the seed of the elect. I find it so amazing.

Regarding the choices these two groups of men made, I think much has to do with the "God card"... as we have discussed before, once the "God said" excuse is played seems morality, decency, honesty, etc, disappear.

If you have the time, I would be interested in your thoughts about this situation... was my very brief overview about right? Did the SS men refuse and Hitler back down? Do you see similarities between the two "commands" while these two groups of followers chose different options? If so, why do you think this is?

I don't want you to feel you have to spend too much time but I am very curious about your insights and thoughts!

Thanks Shades,

~dancer~

[_Dr. Shades]

I didn't know if this whole Nazi, "spread your seed" incident was known by many because that one program was the only time I heard about it.

Touching on what I wrote above, the SS ran a program called the Lebensborn program wherein Aryan women impregnated by the SS (married or not) would be cared for, quite comfortably, throughout their pregnancy and some time beyond (some of the Lebensborn hospitals were established in confiscated Jewish estates). In fact, so well were the women cared for that they'd occasionally fake illnesses or self-inflict wounds in order to stay longer.

Of course, regular Germans (i.e., those who weren't members of the SS) were encouraged to procreate as much as possible as well. Since I mentioned it above, I'll continue: "Motherhood Crosses" were civillian medals given out as a reward for having children. The highest level was the gold motherhood cross which was earned upon giving birth to one's 10th child.

I'm REALLY fascinated with how and why people believe as they do and what compels some folks to follow a leader while others do not. Here we have SS troups (I think) killing jews but refusing to have affairs.

I don't know that you can conflate the two. There's really no way of knowing if any of those who worked the camps were the same ones who were faithful spouses or not.

But let's face it, humans are a mass of contradictions. Mormon college professors who teach evolution and biochemistry Monday through Friday routinely teach about Adam & Eve in Gospel Doctrine class on Sunday. Parents often get irritated at other people's noisy kids in a movie theater while just an hour before they let their own kids run wild at a restaurant. Chain smokers quite often punish their own kids when they catch them smoking in the garage. Women often tell their friends they're tired of only meeting jerks and really want to meet a nice guy, but then immediately break up with a nice guy as soon as the next trash-talking, violent "bad boy" in a leather jacket shows up. Mormons who wouldn't say a cross word to anyone in real life become hatred incarnate when confronted with an ex-Mormon on the Internet.

So a contradiction such as an SS man who was a faithful spouse shouldn't be too surprising.

If you have the time, I would be interested in your thoughts about this situation... was my very brief overview about right?

Not really.

Did the SS men refuse and Hitler back down?

Some did, some didn't. It was heavily emphasized that fathering as many children as possible was the duty of every SS man--whether with his wife or not--but the Nazis were pragmatists and recognized that they'd never stamp out the practice of marriage altogether. There were even SS-style marriage ceremonies.

There was never any sort of punishment for SS men who remained faithful to their wives. Think of it this way: A Mormon couple who refuse to have children is an oddity, and it goes against everything their religion teaches, but they won't be punished in any way for not "getting with the program."

Do you see similarities between the two "commands" while these two groups of followers chose different options? If so, why do you think this is?

Assuming I understand your question correctly--viz., that the two commands were the Mormons' and the SS's commands to spread their seed, and the two groups were the Mormons and the SS who refused to be anything other than monogamous--I'd say the similarities in the dissenters were due to personal scruples combined with a concern for the feelings of their spouses. The commands were only similar in net desired effect, not motivation.