Where are our children going to learn decency, integrity, ethics, and principles?
Where are the great role models for children today?
How often are children exposed to really great people these days? Or truly great ideas for bringing peace and healing to our world?
Children will not learn decency and integrity from politicians, movie stars, athletic greats, business people, or world leaders...
Certainly not from the media or mainstream society...
Often basic principles are not taught in school (for good or bad)...
Seems most religions are more interested in ritual, eliticism, and rewards of the afterlife than they are about real world issues...
Families are so busy with the overwhelming demands of life seems there is little time for learning the basics of ethics and integrity...
I'm just feeling a little sorrowful at the moment.
I know there are great people, great organizations, great ideas but I worry for the little ones growing up in this world. I'm not talking about where they "should" learn this but where "will" they learn it... how will they learn it?
I'm asking that this discussion be respectful... (smile). Any thoughts?
Thanks!
;-)
~dancer~
Teaching children decency, integrity, ethics, principles....
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_truth dancer
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_Bond...James Bond
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I think the hardest part about answering these questions is that the definition of "decency", "integrity", "ethics" and "principles" are always changing. What I consider ethical isn't the same as what the older generations consider ethical. What they considered ethical isn't the same as what their ancestors considered ethical.
I guess the problem (or the solution) is that with greater freedom their is less control. Young people are more individualistic and look down on the definitions of the above (decency, integrity etc) as old hat and discard them. They instead find new meanings for what those words mean.
Personally I don't think there's a real problem. The new ideas aren't right or wrong, just different. In time the young people will grow up to be very similar to their parents (despite how much they try not to be) and will raise kids and live their lives. The saying "these kids today..." I guess seems like a red herring. People have been raising kids for centuries and will always fear for them, but odds are they will grow up and be fine.
Alright a little off center, but I think most people are pretty decent, and their kids will learn from them. What's that saying about family, "it's all quality time."
Hopefully this helps, if not call me a crazy youngster, shake your head and say "these kids today..." ;)
Bond
I guess the problem (or the solution) is that with greater freedom their is less control. Young people are more individualistic and look down on the definitions of the above (decency, integrity etc) as old hat and discard them. They instead find new meanings for what those words mean.
Personally I don't think there's a real problem. The new ideas aren't right or wrong, just different. In time the young people will grow up to be very similar to their parents (despite how much they try not to be) and will raise kids and live their lives. The saying "these kids today..." I guess seems like a red herring. People have been raising kids for centuries and will always fear for them, but odds are they will grow up and be fine.
Alright a little off center, but I think most people are pretty decent, and their kids will learn from them. What's that saying about family, "it's all quality time."
Hopefully this helps, if not call me a crazy youngster, shake your head and say "these kids today..." ;)
Bond
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
Gazelam wrote:I'm willing to bet if you listened to more Prophets, and fewer therapists, you'd know where to find truth.
I didn't see TD ask where to find truth, Gaz. She's talking about integrity, decency, ethics, principals... you know... those things Joseph, Brigham, John Taylor, etc decided to forego, in favor of taking more brides. Those prophets showed a remarkable lack of what TD is seeking, so why would listening to them do her any good?
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_truth dancer
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- Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm
Hi Bond...
Thanks so much for your thoughts...
Here is the difficulty for me... It just seems like the stakes are much higher than they have been ever before in the history of the world.
With the technology we have today we can very easily destroy our species. We are destroying our planet in ways unlike any other time in history.
Absolutely there are great families teaching great things to children... I'm thinking more world wide though. As a world, are we doing a great job of teaching children the basic stuff? The teachings that will make a difference?
I'm not talking about dogma, church rules, or whatever, I'm thinking more in line of caring for other humans, living an honest life, respecting others, valueing our planet.
I actually think the young people of today are amazing! Much more aware, creative, powerful, independent, brilliant than any other generation... I don't think there is anything wrong with them at all.
My concerns are more along the line of... global warming issues, WMP, things that our world has never had to face. Will we figure it all out before it is too late for our little children?
Does that make sense?
Maybe it is that I am just out of touch with reality or something (smile)... I'm open to this actually.
:-)
~dancer~
Ohhh also, in many ways I think the world is much more healthy and advanced than at any other time in history... I do not think the world is less decent than in past generations or anything like that. Quite the opposite actually.
Thanks so much for your thoughts...
Here is the difficulty for me... It just seems like the stakes are much higher than they have been ever before in the history of the world.
With the technology we have today we can very easily destroy our species. We are destroying our planet in ways unlike any other time in history.
Absolutely there are great families teaching great things to children... I'm thinking more world wide though. As a world, are we doing a great job of teaching children the basic stuff? The teachings that will make a difference?
I'm not talking about dogma, church rules, or whatever, I'm thinking more in line of caring for other humans, living an honest life, respecting others, valueing our planet.
I actually think the young people of today are amazing! Much more aware, creative, powerful, independent, brilliant than any other generation... I don't think there is anything wrong with them at all.
My concerns are more along the line of... global warming issues, WMP, things that our world has never had to face. Will we figure it all out before it is too late for our little children?
Does that make sense?
Maybe it is that I am just out of touch with reality or something (smile)... I'm open to this actually.
:-)
~dancer~
Ohhh also, in many ways I think the world is much more healthy and advanced than at any other time in history... I do not think the world is less decent than in past generations or anything like that. Quite the opposite actually.
Re: Teaching children decency, integrity, ethics, principles
truth dancer wrote:Where are our children going to learn decency, integrity, ethics, and principles?
Where are the great role models for children today?
How often are children exposed to really great people these days? Or truly great ideas for bringing peace and healing to our world?
Children will not learn decency and integrity from politicians, movie stars, athletic greats, business people, or world leaders...
Certainly not from the media or mainstream society...
Often basic principles are not taught in school (for good or bad)...
Seems most religions are more interested in ritual, eliticism, and rewards of the afterlife than they are about real world issues...
Families are so busy with the overwhelming demands of life seems there is little time for learning the basics of ethics and integrity...
I'm just feeling a little sorrowful at the moment.
I know there are great people, great organizations, great ideas but I worry for the little ones growing up in this world. I'm not talking about where they "should" learn this but where "will" they learn it... how will they learn it?
The same way generations before learned it. I took a sociology class one time that discussed families. One point that has stayed with me all these years is that a child who has no father in the home will find a father-figure, somewhere. It may be on the street corner, or it may be in the classroom, or in the church, or in the neighboring apartment, but children tend to seek out that which is needed. There are many ways of learning decency, integrity, etc... scouting programs, 4-H, church youth groups, Boys and Girls clubs, Camp Fire, ROTC, Big Brothers and Sisters, city-supported youth programs, sports programs, etc. These programs do a world of good, in quiet corners across the country. Do you hear much about them? No, the media is too busy reporting gang activities and celebrity stupidity. But they're there, and they're doing good things with children who have little if any support at home.
The family is still the ideal place to learn those attributes, but it isn't the only way to live. It doesn't take a stay at home mom and wage-earning father to accomplish your goal; it just takes 2 people who are committed to teaching their children to value those attributes, and to living their lives to mirror that teaching.
I've got 8 kids, all of which are testaments to 2 people's commitment to teaching them those attributes. I haven't been a stay at home mom since my youngest entered first grade, and yet all of my children are good upstanding citizens who are now raising another generation of good citizens.
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_truth dancer
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Gaz...
What, in the world does this sentence have to do with anything?
Please tell me how any prophets have helped? You think building a mall is going to solve global warming? Or wearing certain clothes or having specific hairstyles, is going to change the minds of terrorists? Do you think going to the temple is going to provide food for starving children? What? I have no idea what you are thinking on this....
in my opinion, the idea that God is going to come down and save everyone is exactly what will thwart the effort to make a difference.
Sorry... but I have yet to see a prophet help someone with sexual addiction, child abuse, depression, bi-polar disorder, domestic violence, PTSD, mental health issues, or any number of challenges people face.
~dancer~
I'm willing to bet if you listened to more Prophets, and fewer therapists, you'd know where to find truth.
What, in the world does this sentence have to do with anything?
Please tell me how any prophets have helped? You think building a mall is going to solve global warming? Or wearing certain clothes or having specific hairstyles, is going to change the minds of terrorists? Do you think going to the temple is going to provide food for starving children? What? I have no idea what you are thinking on this....
in my opinion, the idea that God is going to come down and save everyone is exactly what will thwart the effort to make a difference.
Sorry... but I have yet to see a prophet help someone with sexual addiction, child abuse, depression, bi-polar disorder, domestic violence, PTSD, mental health issues, or any number of challenges people face.
~dancer~
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_Ray A
About three weeks ago I started working as a taxi driver (to supplement my savings until I find a more desirable long term job), and I'm exposed to many people from all backgrounds, including teens, and the Friday and Saturday night drunks and junkies. My impression is that by far most people are decent and fair (and some give generous tips!) and ethical. I'm not disillusioned with society (yet) and believe, with reason and now growing experience, that most people are decent. If we have very high standards then we tend to "impose" those standards on others as a measure of right and wrong. A happy drunk who swears a stream a mile long is not necessarily a bad person. I think our judgements reflect more who we are, than the true state of society.
However, I was talking to a lady driver who has been in the game for 30 years, and she says that in the late 70s and early 80s driving was much safer. She now will not work nights (which I do, 4pm-4am), and she says that in the early days there were not drugs like ice and crack, however she also told me that she's never been assaulted or robbed (every driver gets an occasional unscrupulous runner), and when male passengers realise "he" is a she, they are respectful, and she has driven without a major incident in all that time. I think it's the aversion factor, and understandably, of people on drugs, and what "could" happen. We don't like to think we are surrounded by people in a near schizophrenic state who could "do their block". So no question that in this regard we have gone somewhat downhill. I have to admit I'm startled by the number of passengers affected by alcohol at 4.30pm.
One thing I'm glad about in doing this job is meeting people, and you see every walk of life, from white collar executives to blue collar workers, and even people with criminal records (which they sometimes happily admit, and sometimes play the "victim"). Then I get some regulars who go to the pub after work, want a ride home, and they chat all the way about the grind of work and wanting a better life. Tell me about it; being on the road 12 hours a day, sometimes with only 20 minutes break the whole night. I think these are the sorts of frustrations that bring out less impressive behaviour in people, but so many are under pressure, to pay bills, support themselves and families, mortgages to pay, debts, and who feel life is not always fair. All these things have to be considered in "reactions", drug or alcohol abuse, etc. No one should expect a free ride, and my philosophy is one of hard work, but I can understand how societal pressures can drive people to do things they normally would not do.
In the 80s I could support a family of four (then) without my then wife working. With deregulation and global competition that became impossible by the late 80s. Today, no one can even think of owning a home unless both partners work, and that in turn puts pressures on family life, and often leads to divorce. Mormons have not escaped, and the ideal of the mother at home while dad brings in the bacon is now in most cases impossible unless dad is on a super salary, or they choose to live in very humble circumstances. Materialism is another factor which contributes to these pressures, owning more and more. I don't think drugs are really the problem, I think greed and selfishness is the problem, while the "haves" get more and more, and the "have nots" often sponsor them. CEOs on multi-million dollar salaries and corporates who cheat the system by abusing tax-payer dollars. All of these things have led to unrest, and even disillusionment. People finally say, "stuff society", and it becomes "every man for himself". That is where we have gone wrong, and the ill-effects are the symptoms, not the cause.
Even more disheartening for many is that those who do "have" don't give a damn about those who have not. After writing all this you wouldn't think I'm a conservative voter, but I am, and I believe that if you don't work, you don't eat, but I can see why many become disillusioned.
However, I was talking to a lady driver who has been in the game for 30 years, and she says that in the late 70s and early 80s driving was much safer. She now will not work nights (which I do, 4pm-4am), and she says that in the early days there were not drugs like ice and crack, however she also told me that she's never been assaulted or robbed (every driver gets an occasional unscrupulous runner), and when male passengers realise "he" is a she, they are respectful, and she has driven without a major incident in all that time. I think it's the aversion factor, and understandably, of people on drugs, and what "could" happen. We don't like to think we are surrounded by people in a near schizophrenic state who could "do their block". So no question that in this regard we have gone somewhat downhill. I have to admit I'm startled by the number of passengers affected by alcohol at 4.30pm.
One thing I'm glad about in doing this job is meeting people, and you see every walk of life, from white collar executives to blue collar workers, and even people with criminal records (which they sometimes happily admit, and sometimes play the "victim"). Then I get some regulars who go to the pub after work, want a ride home, and they chat all the way about the grind of work and wanting a better life. Tell me about it; being on the road 12 hours a day, sometimes with only 20 minutes break the whole night. I think these are the sorts of frustrations that bring out less impressive behaviour in people, but so many are under pressure, to pay bills, support themselves and families, mortgages to pay, debts, and who feel life is not always fair. All these things have to be considered in "reactions", drug or alcohol abuse, etc. No one should expect a free ride, and my philosophy is one of hard work, but I can understand how societal pressures can drive people to do things they normally would not do.
In the 80s I could support a family of four (then) without my then wife working. With deregulation and global competition that became impossible by the late 80s. Today, no one can even think of owning a home unless both partners work, and that in turn puts pressures on family life, and often leads to divorce. Mormons have not escaped, and the ideal of the mother at home while dad brings in the bacon is now in most cases impossible unless dad is on a super salary, or they choose to live in very humble circumstances. Materialism is another factor which contributes to these pressures, owning more and more. I don't think drugs are really the problem, I think greed and selfishness is the problem, while the "haves" get more and more, and the "have nots" often sponsor them. CEOs on multi-million dollar salaries and corporates who cheat the system by abusing tax-payer dollars. All of these things have led to unrest, and even disillusionment. People finally say, "stuff society", and it becomes "every man for himself". That is where we have gone wrong, and the ill-effects are the symptoms, not the cause.
Even more disheartening for many is that those who do "have" don't give a damn about those who have not. After writing all this you wouldn't think I'm a conservative voter, but I am, and I believe that if you don't work, you don't eat, but I can see why many become disillusioned.
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_truth dancer
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- Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm
Hi Ray...
Ahhh thanks for this.
I'm with you that most people are decent. And drinking (and NOT driving), swearing, tattoos, whatever do not really bother me at all. (In my line of work, trust me I see it ALL).
And... in many ways I really think the world is much better than it ever has been... ever. Take for example, women having rights, children being protected (at least an attempt in some places), laws being in place to protect endangered species, those with handicaps being a part of society, etc. etc. etc.
It is just the stakes have gotten higher.
Have you read End of Faith by any chance? Sam Harris does a great job of presenting a picture of where we are (in my opinion).
Maybe it is just me ... Maybe I've been reading too much about global warming, terrorism, and some recent reports of slavery and abuse going on in our country. Ahhhh.... Maybe I just need a vacation! :-)
~dancer~
Ahhh thanks for this.
I'm with you that most people are decent. And drinking (and NOT driving), swearing, tattoos, whatever do not really bother me at all. (In my line of work, trust me I see it ALL).
And... in many ways I really think the world is much better than it ever has been... ever. Take for example, women having rights, children being protected (at least an attempt in some places), laws being in place to protect endangered species, those with handicaps being a part of society, etc. etc. etc.
It is just the stakes have gotten higher.
Have you read End of Faith by any chance? Sam Harris does a great job of presenting a picture of where we are (in my opinion).
Maybe it is just me ... Maybe I've been reading too much about global warming, terrorism, and some recent reports of slavery and abuse going on in our country. Ahhhh.... Maybe I just need a vacation! :-)
~dancer~
truth dancer wrote:Hi Ray...
Ahhh thanks for this.
I'm with you that most people are decent. And drinking (and NOT driving), swearing, tattoos, whatever do not really bother me at all. (In my line of work, trust me I see it ALL).
And... in many ways I really think the world is much better than it ever has been... ever. Take for example, women having rights, children being protected (at least an attempt in some places), laws being in place to protect endangered species, those with handicaps being a part of society, etc. etc. etc.
It is just the stakes have gotten higher.
Have you read End of Faith by any chance? Sam Harris does a great job of presenting a picture of where we are (in my opinion).
Maybe it is just me ... Maybe I've been reading too much about global warming, terrorism, and some recent reports of slavery and abuse going on in our country. Ahhhh.... Maybe I just need a vacation! :-)
~dancer~
The thing is, the good ol' days weren't all that good. And the good don't always get what they deserve.
A work colleague of mine has problems at home. Her husband was forced to resign his job, because of some integrity issues. After working for this company for 20 years, he's out of job because they wanted to live far beyond their means. For all the years I've known her, they've cut corners, done things on the sly that weren't ethical, and essentially reshaped their reality to conform with their insatiable need for more and more "stuff". Now, because of his lack of ethics, their family income has been cut by 2/3. He was told to resign, and if he went quietly, the company wouldn't press criminal charges. What is their response on a personal level? It's someone else's fault. It's always someone else's fault. They cannot preserve their sense of themselves, and at the same time, admit that he made some really bad mistakes.
Fast forward to the way my staff partner does her job. She exhibits the same character traits as her husband: she cuts corners, claims reimbursement for mileage for meetings she didn't attend, and consistently barely passes her MBO's. So how does my company react? They're promoting her, of course! How does that make the rest of us feel? Well, I'm sure you can imagine.
The issue of integrity, decency, etc. can't be just a family problem; it has to be addressed at the corporate level too. Companies that pollute our environment shouldn't have to be penalized by the government in order to clean up their act; they should be shamed into doing it by the public. Companies that reward poor performing employees with promotions show their lack of integrity and lack of care for the employees that are good staff. If the buying public made it fiscal suicide to buy inventory from companies that use child labor or have plants that pollute, companies wouldn't use those practices. We control our own destiny. We're just too lazy or too cheap to follow through on what we know is right.