Hello All,
There have been some comments/speculations made regarding the outcome over at ZLMB which is now, by the looks of it, a slow moving graveyard. beastie attempted to get answers/thoughts/opinions on MAD about the "mass exodus" of largely TBM posters from ZLMB to FAIR.
Well, let's talk about it. To what do you attribute as causes for the "mass exodus" to FAIR? What do you see as differences between ZLMB and FAIR, and what would make largely TBM posters want to leave ZLMB in favor of FAIR?
Jersey Girl
ZLMB Cause of Death
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_Jersey Girl
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 34407
- Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am
ZLMB Cause of Death
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Chinese Proverb
I personally left ZLMB to come here because I saw the discussions here as more of a challenge, not to mention that the number of interesting posts was greater here. ZLMB was a little slow before I left for here, and Fair was too fast moving for my taste.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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_dartagnan
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 2750
- Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm
I left because of several reasons...
1) The search engine sucks.
2) The moderating crew was demolished (including Waltz and Metcalfe) and trying to get in contact with any of them and getting their help, was like pulling teeth.
3) Everyone I had ever argued with had already left
4) ZLMB went through phases where it would ask for donations, and make anouncements about possibly closing down. And then everyone left, implying that without donations it would go under anytime soon.
It seemed unstable after all of the above.
Oh yeah, the software is outdated. PhpBB is better.
1) The search engine sucks.
2) The moderating crew was demolished (including Waltz and Metcalfe) and trying to get in contact with any of them and getting their help, was like pulling teeth.
3) Everyone I had ever argued with had already left
4) ZLMB went through phases where it would ask for donations, and make anouncements about possibly closing down. And then everyone left, implying that without donations it would go under anytime soon.
It seemed unstable after all of the above.
Oh yeah, the software is outdated. PhpBB is better.
I've never really been familar with ZLMB, but I have entertained some questions and to why Kevin's board has slowed down so much, or why the Mormon participation of Beliefnet is not much larger than it is, even though Beliefnet is not only the largest religious forum in the world, but it is within the top 25 most active sites as well.
Could having the presence of Juliann somehow be the key?
Could having the presence of Juliann somehow be the key?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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_mentalgymnast
Re: ZLMB Cause of Death
There have been some comments/speculations made regarding the outcome over at ZLMB which is now, by the looks of it, a slow moving graveyard.
MG: I was active over on ZLMB for quite a while as mentalgymnast. I think ZLMB closed up shop because the powerhitters left, on both teams. There weren't any star players or even pinch-hitters in the dugout ready or willing to step up to bat.
Regards,
MG
We all know what happened at ZLMB: WAzing.
No really. It's true. WAzing was singlehandedly responsible for bringing down Zion's Lighthouse, according to those in the know. And we can blame WAzing on Josh Skains. If he'd kept his fingers out of the Folk of the Fringe, WAzing would never have found ZLMB. So there you have it, the Reader's Digest version: WAzing is responsible for the demise of civilization as we know it. It's only when you get into the rest of the story that understanding happens.
(I think they give me too much credit...)
No really. It's true. WAzing was singlehandedly responsible for bringing down Zion's Lighthouse, according to those in the know. And we can blame WAzing on Josh Skains. If he'd kept his fingers out of the Folk of the Fringe, WAzing would never have found ZLMB. So there you have it, the Reader's Digest version: WAzing is responsible for the demise of civilization as we know it. It's only when you get into the rest of the story that understanding happens.
(I think they give me too much credit...)
As best I recall, the believers who were fleeing stated that they were doing so largely due to the fact that the climate of ZLMB was hostile to believers, despite the unbiased moderating.
Gazelam mentioned how difficult it is to have your belief system constantly challenged, and Wade mentioned discontent over the allowance of criticisms of church leaders. These were also given as reasons for departure.
I always assumed that believers who frequented ZLMB, and now MAD, enjoy discussing their belief system with challengers. Obviously, the boards are designed to allow for that interaction. So when one joins these communities, one must be aware that one's belief system is going to be regularly challenged. It isn't Sunday School or a fellowship board. So I have a hard time understanding why believers would choose to frequent these type of boards, but then want extra protection in order to compensate for regularly witnessing criticisms of their cherished beliefs. My view is that if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Know yourself well enough to know what you can and cannot emotionally tolerate.
ZLMB mods spent some time discussing the "criticizing leaders" problem. Overall, the conclusion was that prohibiting any criticism of church leaders pretty much disallowed for meaningful discussion, for critics, of the origins of Mormonism. To a large extent, the story of Joseph Smith is the story of the origins of Mormonism. So outlawing criticisms of church leaders seemed silly.
Besides, critics still criticize church leaders on MAD.
The main difference on MAD, as far as I can tell, is that the board is designed with an eye towards keeping believers content so they don't flee the board. Most critics are dispensable, so if numerous complaints are received about certain critics, regardless of the objective value of those criticisms, the critic can go, to keep the LDS happy. There are some high-name critics that are must be exempt from this cavalier attitude, of course. The board would look ridiculous even to believers if they banned someone like Dan Vogel and Brent Metcalfe, for example.
As I've stated many times, people have the right to run their boards however they choose. I just think that an unbiased moderating team, combined with forbidden foul language and temple talk, obviously was not adequate to keep believers' happy, so when they use that excuse for not coming here, it's BS as far as I'm concerned. They once had a board that forbid those things and it still wasn't good enough. They needed even more protection from critics.
The only logical conclusion, to me, is that if they aren't given this extra protection they feel too harassed and beleaguered by critics. And that certainly isn't because critics, in general, behave worse than LDS. Some of our worst problems on the Z board were LDS believers. They tended to be longer-term problems due to Pac's reluctance to permanently banned some that should have been. Overall, it was a pretty even balance of problem posters on each side.
Gazelam mentioned how difficult it is to have your belief system constantly challenged, and Wade mentioned discontent over the allowance of criticisms of church leaders. These were also given as reasons for departure.
I always assumed that believers who frequented ZLMB, and now MAD, enjoy discussing their belief system with challengers. Obviously, the boards are designed to allow for that interaction. So when one joins these communities, one must be aware that one's belief system is going to be regularly challenged. It isn't Sunday School or a fellowship board. So I have a hard time understanding why believers would choose to frequent these type of boards, but then want extra protection in order to compensate for regularly witnessing criticisms of their cherished beliefs. My view is that if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Know yourself well enough to know what you can and cannot emotionally tolerate.
ZLMB mods spent some time discussing the "criticizing leaders" problem. Overall, the conclusion was that prohibiting any criticism of church leaders pretty much disallowed for meaningful discussion, for critics, of the origins of Mormonism. To a large extent, the story of Joseph Smith is the story of the origins of Mormonism. So outlawing criticisms of church leaders seemed silly.
Besides, critics still criticize church leaders on MAD.
The main difference on MAD, as far as I can tell, is that the board is designed with an eye towards keeping believers content so they don't flee the board. Most critics are dispensable, so if numerous complaints are received about certain critics, regardless of the objective value of those criticisms, the critic can go, to keep the LDS happy. There are some high-name critics that are must be exempt from this cavalier attitude, of course. The board would look ridiculous even to believers if they banned someone like Dan Vogel and Brent Metcalfe, for example.
As I've stated many times, people have the right to run their boards however they choose. I just think that an unbiased moderating team, combined with forbidden foul language and temple talk, obviously was not adequate to keep believers' happy, so when they use that excuse for not coming here, it's BS as far as I'm concerned. They once had a board that forbid those things and it still wasn't good enough. They needed even more protection from critics.
The only logical conclusion, to me, is that if they aren't given this extra protection they feel too harassed and beleaguered by critics. And that certainly isn't because critics, in general, behave worse than LDS. Some of our worst problems on the Z board were LDS believers. They tended to be longer-term problems due to Pac's reluctance to permanently banned some that should have been. Overall, it was a pretty even balance of problem posters on each side.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Penn & Teller
http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
Penn & Teller
http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
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_Jersey Girl
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 34407
- Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am
Gazelam wrote:I personally left ZLMB to come here because I saw the discussions here as more of a challenge, not to mention that the number of interesting posts was greater here. ZLMB was a little slow before I left for here, and Fair was too fast moving for my taste.
Gaz,
I remember when you (and your graphics!) appeared on ZLMB and I think that from your participation here, I've gained a fuller picture of who you are and what you're about. I don't always like where you're coming from but I respect that you are open to self challenge. I agree that FAIR was fast moving and a very large community as well. I spent about 3 years on ZLMB all total and very much enjoyed my participation there. Recent events caused me to stop posting there.
Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Chinese Proverb
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_Jersey Girl
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 34407
- Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am
dartagnan wrote:I left because of several reasons...
1) The search engine sucks.
2) The moderating crew was demolished (including Waltz and Metcalfe) and trying to get in contact with any of them and getting their help, was like pulling teeth.
3) Everyone I had ever argued with had already left
4) ZLMB went through phases where it would ask for donations, and make anouncements about possibly closing down. And then everyone left, implying that without donations it would go under anytime soon.
It seemed unstable after all of the above.
Oh yeah, the software is outdated. PhpBB is better.
dart,
I have to agree with you about the search engine. It is by far, the worst I've ever tried to use on a board. My own participation was very minimal at first. I came from an unmoderated board and Z was the first moderated board I'd ever posted on and I had to work hard to modify my posts to stay in compliance with board rules where previously I had no rules at all. I am not aware of the difficulty in contacting mods until, I'd say, after the cappings and email registrations took place. After that, it seemed to me that Pac bowed out and the mod team probably grew weary of their duties. For the last year or so, I'd have to agree with you that the board was unstable.
Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Chinese Proverb