Anger - What is it?

[_Mephitus]

I've never been able to develop a methodology to get rid of anger in any other fashion. Without acting out that is. Im by no means thinking that ill be this angry forever. I wouldn't want to be. But i already know it will be a thorn in my side for the rest of my life. If not just because of the personal problems that have been erected due to Mormonism but also because, as i said previously, im the only ex-mo in the entirety of my family. This is not something that my family holds in small regard. nor do i.

If you think it was i that started the seperation that i now have with my parents, think again. 4 years ago when i was merely questioning, they literaly threw me out in the street! (a great thing to do when you have no car, savings, friends, ect. having only moved to utah a few months prior) Acceptance by my parents weighs greatly on the side that i stay Mormon. But knowing what i do, i cannot lie about it any longer. Im open to discuss things with my parents, but i now understand why they cannot allow themselves to consider things contrary to what they have based their entire life off of.

To me, i think of anger as a cleansing emotion. But that's not to say that i go around all day being angry at the world. On a personal note, i believe whole heartedly in the bohemien (sp?) ideals set forth in such movies as Moulin Rouge. Beauty, truth, and love. I know in due time i can fully experience them all. But i must also first cleanse myself of things that would detract me from those pursuites. This kind of posting is my own kind of personal therapy. A way of understanding the perspective of where i was, where i am now, and where i would like to go with things. Previously this would have only been available with professional counseling. This works very well for some people, as we are able to fully think out responses rather than just saying things on the spot. Though to you, its all a defense of everything you base your life on.

It reminds me of a saying, "when traveling through the forest and you see a fox chasing a rabbit. Who do you think will win? The rabbit. You see the fox is merely working for its supper. The rabbit is running for its life." I like to think of forums such as these, as fulfilling an emotional need to properly understand and vent. So even if i loose an argument, it means little to me. but when someone like you looses.....(ugh, im rambling, so ill cut this short)

[_wenglund]

I've never been able to develop a methodology to get rid of anger in any other fashion. Without acting out that is. Im by no means thinking that ill be this angry forever. I wouldn't want to be. But i already know it will be a thorn in my side for the rest of my life. If not just because of the personal problems that have been erected due to Mormonism but also because, as i said previously, im the only ex-mo in the entirety of my family. This is not something that my family holds in small regard. nor do i.

If you think it was i that started the seperation that i now have with my parents, think again. 4 years ago when i was merely questioning, they literaly threw me out in the street! (a great thing to do when you have no car, savings, friends, ect. having only moved to utah a few months prior) Acceptance by my parents weighs greatly on the side that i stay Mormon. But knowing what i do, i cannot lie about it any longer. Im open to discuss things with my parents, but i now understand why they cannot allow themselves to consider things contrary to what they have based their entire life off of.

To me, i think of anger as a cleansing emotion. But that's not to say that i go around all day being angry at the world. On a personal note, i believe whole heartedly in the bohemien (sp?) ideals set forth in such movies as Moulin Rouge. Beauty, truth, and love. I know in due time i can fully experience them all. But i must also first cleanse myself of things that would detract me from those pursuites. This kind of posting is my own kind of personal therapy. A way of understanding the perspective of where i was, where i am now, and where i would like to go with things. Previously this would have only been available with professional counseling. This works very well for some people, as we are able to fully think out responses rather than just saying things on the spot. Though to you, its all a defense of everything you base your life on.

It reminds me of a saying, "when traveling through the forest and you see a fox chasing a rabbit. Who do you think will win? The rabbit. You see the fox is merely working for its supper. The rabbit is running for its life." I like to think of forums such as these, as fulfilling an emotional need to properly understand and vent. So even if i loose an argument, it means little to me. but when someone like you looses.....(ugh, im rambling, so ill cut this short)

It sounds to me like you have chosen to employ the same dysfunctional method (i.e. anger and alienation) for dealing with differences and challenges as have your parents and other family members. I find that very sad and tragic, and my heart goes out to all of you.

In truth, it really doesn't matter who may have started it. Rather, what matters is who ends it. When given the right tools, you actually have it within your power to end it--at least for yourself towards them, if not also them towards you.

And, you are mistaken to think that anger is a cleansing mechanism. It is in no way designed for that purpose. Its healthy function is mearly to aggitate people towards immediately making needed changes. However, when allowed to reach intense temperatures, or fester and burn over a prolonged periods of time, it will but unhealthily and dysfunctionally scortch and scar and destroy--mostly the person harboring the anger.

As always, though, the choice is yours. You can decide to emulate your parents dysfunctional alienation and pronlonged anger, which is destructive to all parties concerned, or you can learn about and employ workable strategies in dealing with differences and challenges, and which tend towards the peace, beauty, truth, and love that you rightfully desire.

If you ever decide upon the latter, and if I am still around, I will be more than happy to be of whatever help I can. It grieves me to see you and your parents depriving each other of the mutual love, value, and respect that is so vital to each other. I sorrow to see both sides unnecessarily locked into persistant hurt, resentment, anger, judgementalism, vengence, etc.. And, I would very much like to see things restored to peace and joy.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

The following are some articles dealing with health problems due to prolonged anger or anger managemant issues:

Unhealthy Rage

Anger and Health

Health Cost of Anger

Anger Kills

I will try and locate some articles on the delitarious affects of prolonged anger on a persons psyche as well as inter-personal relationships.

Here is a brief and interesting article on ANGER that I thought some of you might value.

From a CBT perspective, though, there is this helpful article on ANGER

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_moksha]

Marginalisation does not occur because of anger, Wade, it occurs by merely having different beliefs, or departing from one's former beliefs.

One can certainly view it that way. But, I don't see it as a necessity. For my part, I don't think it useful for either side of divergent beliefs to view the divergence as marginalisations. Instead, I think it better to view it simply as a difference of opinion.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Absolutely right Wade. If people in a group such as the LDS or any other Church could refrain from being judgmental of each other due to different views or opinions, then any thoughts of feeling marginalized would ebb, and they would realize they merely had different opinions and that its nothing to get up about.

[_wenglund]

Here is an article that touches on the possible psychological and relationship challenges that anger (particularly prolonged anger) may present: Anger: Causes and Consequences.

The article list the following possible signs of difficulty coping with anger:

1) You feel (or fear) being out of control when you are angry.
2) You often feel tense, irritable or frustrated.
3) You find yourself frequently gossiping or complaining about others rather than speaking to them directly about what is bothering you.
4) You frequently feel hurt or resentful that others treat you unfairly.
5) You hurt others, especially those you care about, by demeaning or putting them down, cursing at them, or being verbally abusive. You end up regretting something you said or did when angry.
6) You take out your anger on someone or something else rather than the person or situation that is bothering you.
7) You have physically lashed out when angry (e.g. destroyed property, hit someone, etc.).
8) You have lost or are in danger of losing a relationship, job, or something else important to you because of your anger.
9) You have been arrested or have legal difficulties because of your anger.
10) You use alcohol or drugs to try and calm your emotions.
11) Others (e.g. friends, family, professors, academic administrators, bosses) have expressed concern about your anger.

In Psychology Today, there is this article that underscores much of what I have said about anger (particularly in terms of venting) on this thread, and it also delves a bit into the Psychological and relationship difficulties that can result from therefrom: The Downside of Anger

On the personalitydisorder.org web site, there is an article on ANGER which talks about "Thinking Errors" which make some people vulnerable to unhealthy anger. These errors include: a) taking things personally, b) ignoring the positive, c) perfectionism, and d) black-and-white thinking. The article also lists some "unhelpful Beliefs" about anger that some here may relate to.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Have you come across instances where people claim to not be angry, but you sense that that really are. This may be because the party in question may not recognize that they are angry--i.e. their EQ may not be sufficiently developed, or certain form of anger may be too subtle or easily confused with other emotions. To help in recognizing some of these more subtle and confusing types of anger, there is an article on Anger + Frustration which lists the following behavioral signs of anger:

- ASSAULTIVE: Physical and verbal cruelty, rage, slapping, shoving, kicking, hitting, threaten with a weapon, etc.;

- AGGRESSION: Overly critical, fault finding, name-calling, accusing someone of having immoral or despicable traits or motives, nagging, whining, sarcasm, prejudice, flashes of temper;

- HURTFUL: Malicious gossip, stealing, trouble-making;

- REBELLIOUS: Anti-social behavior, open defiance, refusal to talk;

- DIRECT: Verbal or cognitive signs;

- OPEN HATRED + INSULTS: "I hate your guts!" "I'm really mad!" "You're so stupid!";

- CONTEMPT + DISGUST: "You're a selfish SOB!" "You are a spineless wimp!" "You'll never amount to anything!";

- CRITICAL: "If you really cared about me, you'd [fill in blank]!" "You can't trust [fill in blank]!";

- SUSPICIOUS: "You haven't been fair!" "You cheated!";

- BLAMING: "They've been trying to cause me trouble!" "I don't get the respect I deserve!";

- VENGEFUL "I wish I could really hurt him!";

- NAME CALLING: "Guys are jerks!" "Women are bitches!" "Politicians are self-serving liars!"; and

- LESS INTENSE BUT CLEAR: "Well, I'm a little annoyed ..." "I'm fed up with [fill in blank] ..." "I've had it!" "You're a pain!" "I don't want to be around you!"

Thinly veiled behavioral signs:

- Distrustful, skeptical;

- Argumentative, irritable, indirectly challenging;

- Resentful, jealous, envious;

- Disruptive, uncooperative, or distracting actions;

- Unforgiving or unsympathetic attitude;

- Sulky, sullen, pouting;

- Passively resistant, interferes with progress;

- Given to sarcasm, cynical humor, and teasing;

- Judgmental, has a superior or holier-than-thou attitude;

Thinly veiled verbal signs:

- "No, I'm not mad - I'm just disappointed / annoyed / disgusted / put out / irritated."

- "You don't know what you're talking about."

- "Don't make me laugh!"

- "Don't push me, I'll do it when I get good and ready!"

- "Well, they aren't my kind of people."

- "Would you buy a used car from him?"

- "You could improve on [fill in blank]."

- "Unlike Social Work, my major admits only the best students."

Indirect behavioral signs:

- WITHDRAWAL Quiet remoteness, silence, little communication especially about feelings; or

- PSYCHOSOMATIC DISORDERS Tiredness, anxiety, high blood pressure, heart disease.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Marginalisation does not occur because of anger, Wade, it occurs by merely having different beliefs, or departing from one's former beliefs.

One can certainly view it that way. But, I don't see it as a necessity. For my part, I don't think it useful for either side of divergent beliefs to view the divergence as marginalisations. Instead, I think it better to view it simply as a difference of opinion.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Absolutely right Wade. If people in a group such as the LDS or any other Church could refrain from being judgmental of each other due to different views or opinions, then any thoughts of feeling marginalized would ebb, and they would realize they merely had different opinions and that its nothing to get up about.

I think that what you say would apply to all groups and organization, whether religious or secular, whether as members or former members.

However, given how little control one may have over how groups and organizations may tend to judge in terms of differences of opinions, I find it more useful to look at such things on an individual level and in terms of what we each can do personally to improve ourselves in that regard--i.e. look to change our own thinking in the way suggested above.

Then, if enough people do that, this will, in and of itself, and eventually, change the culture or thinking of the various groups and organizations.

I mention this because of the propensity for some to look externally for change at the exlusion of the internal. Not only does that propensity shift control to external things which may not take control or exercise the control as desired, but even were external things to change in the desired way, that may not entirely resolve things internally for all individuals concerned. For example, even were a given group or orgaization to change from judgmentalism to respectful differences in opinions (say, like if the Church as a whole, and on balance, were to be that way), unless those with whom there is a difference of opinion (say, like former members of the Church) view things in the same way, the perception of marginalization will still occur--the later party (former members of the Chruch) may still marginalize the group or organization (the Church), and perhaps even mis-interpret or project onto what the group or organization says or does as marginalizing. The same may be true in reverse. The bottom line is, we each need first look internally, and put our own perceptual houses in order, and by so doing, we extricate ourselves from the downward cycle of marginalization, and indirectly help groups and organizations to likewise.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Ray A]

If people in a group such as the LDS or any other Church could refrain from being judgmental of each other due to different views or opinions, then any thoughts of feeling marginalized would ebb, and they would realize they merely had different opinions and that its nothing to get up about.

I think this is the core of the whole issue, but as Wade also correctly observed this applies to all religions, not just Mormonism. A person's judgemental reactions can canker a religion in the eyes of the one vilified. It's a sweeping attitude to take, perhaps, but you have to wonder about a religion that breeds such judgementalism. People are by nature judgemental, but one would think that those who follow a man who taught "judge not, lest ye be judged with that same judgement you meted out", there would be some "stretching" to adhere. I know some non-judgemental Mormons and Christians, but I'm afraid by and large it's a case of asking the question "if you were charged with being a Christian at the time when Christians were fed to the lions, would there be enough evidence to convict you?" The "cheek turning" and going the second mile seems to be a teaching completely ignored. A Catholic relative of mine is a good example of the Pharisee who relies on dead works while snubbing his/her fellowmen, and she's not alone. With all this hypocrisy I wonder if religion really makes any difference. Does it stop believers from living high on the hill and high on the hog, as Nibley once said? This is what turns people off religion more than anything. Not even false doctrines can make people so angry. So in the final analysis I ask: What have your religious beliefs done to really change you? Perhaps goodness and evil are just intrinsic. Regardless of your religious affiliation you will be who you are. And I do recall the statement of Joseph Smith here, that if he was righteous enough to go to heaven he would rather be accompanied by a person who swears a stream a mile long but could do a good turn, than by a long, smooth-faced hypocrite.

Last night I drove through the grounds and buildings of the largest Buddhist temple in the southern hemisphere, yes ironically it's right here in Oz, and I felt an awe for the place like I've felt with no Mormon temple, the peace and serenity of the place, but I wondered, first and foremost, do you live what you preach? If you're a ratbag I will accept you as you are, but don't clothe your ratbagism with religious garb, because it cankers your soul.

Don't think this is the domain of religion alone either. I've seen some pretty judgemental atheists, and when I belonged to the Rationalist Society in Australia they had dogmas that would match any religion, and if you didn't chant the mantra and worship the Holy Trinity of Freud, Marx and Darwin you were nothing but an ignoramus. I lasted 13 years as a Mormon, but only two years before I resigned from the RA. You look at them, shake your head, and wonder which dogma is worse.

[_Ray A]

This story is fictional, but it reflects reality. Anger is often what we allow our imagination to create. A man was driving along a country road when his car got a flat, and he had no jack. So he started walking to the nearest house to see if he could find someone with a jack. While walking along he began to imagine that no one would welcome him at this late hour of the night, especially if they had to drive back to his car. So he imagined angry people answering their doors, and he too got angry at this thought. As he walked along imagining what the reactions would be, he got angrier and angrier. By the time he got to the first door his imaginary anger at possible reactions was at its peak. He knocked on the door, and when the person answered he blurted out a stream of expletives about lending me your %$#@#$ jack before I punch you!! This is self-defeating, imaginary anger at possible situations.

In this regard, I think there is some wisdom in the immortal Desiderata:

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.

[_Ray A]

Ray,

In regards to your analogy of boards such as RFM "faning the flames" rather then letting them settle and die out of their own accord. Im unsure how most people deal with their anger issues, (i grew up in a very dysfuntional family now that i now how to recognise it) But personaly, I've always had to burn out all feelings of anger. I've always had to continualy feed all the problems associated with that anger into the fire untill theres nothing left to be angry about. The problem that has arrisen from the connection to Mormonism, is that the more i look, the more i find legitimate reason to be angry. more fuel for the fire if you will.

And for many of us ex's, its not merely an issue of time spent. Yeah, i wasted countless hours and money on a lie for the first 19 years of my life. But im also the only personl in my entire family (extended included) who isnt Mormon. So this is something that to this day is still effecting me by proxy if you will. Let alone the psychological issues that arrose from Mormonism. Due to the guilt that Mormonism instill in its members, i wrestled with depression for many years within the morg. Im sorry, but you don't go through a horrible psychological terrorizing like that and come out happy or even neutral about things. As well as all the instilled issues with how to think of the world and the information that is provided to you. That you always have to anylize everything to see if it holds to the mind virus that is Mormonism. That took me nearly 3 years to deprogram the major part of that out of myself.

So don't just view us as people pissed off over a "few lies". I would say that nearly all of us have had un-repairable damage done to us by Mormonism through the years. Sure, some in differing areas. But overall, i wouldn't wish the problems that Mormonism had on me to my worst enimy. People do not get this pissed off over something that could be discribed as "spilt milk". They get pissed off when people they love and trust show to have a track record of not acting in your best interest or downright lieing about everything you have ever held dear.

Im making this a bit long, but i hope you can understand more fully why some of us seem as ticked off as we do.

SH, I do understand why people get ticked off, and your story is particularly poignant, and I do believe you have legitimate cause to be angry. We cannot deny anger, but only we can choose whether to let it dominate our lives. I'm not saying it dominates yours. Just remember that the world is full of people who have legitimate cause to be angry. I often hear "atrocity stories". One thing I think we need to bear in mind is that most people do not like angry people, and listen less to them. The more you vent, the more people think you're just a pitiful, angry soul. Fact of life, no matter how hard your road has been. I know a man who is half-crazed with anger. Several nights a week he comes out of his house half-naked and starts shouting obsenities at people, the police, and how the government has wronged him. The police don't even bother with him anymore. He's just considered a public nuisance, and jailing him will accomplish nothing. Fortunately he never resorts to violence, and is a mental case riddled with anger. He does provide some enterainment to bemused passers-by who don't know he's a "regular" on the venting circuit. I'm sure his anger is legitimate, but all he wants to do is let it out, and he wins no one over to sympathy with him. He's a curiosity who might as well be in a zoo cage howling, because his life has nothing productive in it - except venting. I understand this has been going on for a long time, and they even have a nickname for him. I have to admit he sometimes does break the monotony of slow night shifts for me - pure entertainment. But I can't help thinking how productive this life could be if he controlled that anger. Venting does not create legitimacy. The legitimacy is already there in most cases. HOW you react, will determine whether or not you get attention.