Is the Book of Mormon Altered?

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_Dr. Shades
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Re: Is the Book of Mormon Altered?

Post by _Dr. Shades »

twinkie wrote:I was reading online somewhere that the original Book of Mormon was altered. Is this true?


Yes, it's very true.

I made a study of this on my website. See: The Changes in the Book of Mormon

In brief, I show all the changes made--changes to grammar, spelling, punctuation, and wording. You can read the whole thing like a book and see the changes as they come along.

I don't have the whole thing done yet, but here's First Nephi for you: The Changes Made to I Nephi
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

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_truth dancer
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Post by _truth dancer »

Gaz...

that's the testimony shakeing evidence that the Book of Mormon isnt true? Grammer? Lets not look at the theology and profound teachings, lets look at whether or not the word "son of" was used in describeing God in the Book of Mormon, or whether to use was or were.


Ummm Gaz... you don't think a distinction between "God" and the "Son of God" is just a little, shall we say, significant? In a church whose claim is that these are two separate beings, the "forgetting" of the word, Son, isn't just slightly important?

God taught Joseph how to translate, but it was up to a farmboy to dress it in language we could understand. Proper english and grammer arent exactly high on the list of most of the people around back then, just read some of the letters from that time. Emma spoke about how Joseph could hardly compose a proper letter to her.

God works through prophets, and prophets have faults, includeing grammatical ones.


Wait, Joseph Smith stated he saw the words as they were written in the bottom of the hat... so, seems to me it was God who was not so great at grammar?

And... Shades, your website is really informative! :-)

~dancer~
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

If Joseph Smith was dictating the translation to Oliver Cowdry, Martin Harris, or Emma, for that matter, all of these people were educated. Why did they not make the proper grammatical corrections? That doesn't make sense.

As far as the distinction between "God" and "Son of God", I have to agree with Gaz on this one. Heavenly Father and Jesus are one in purpose. Christ is the God of this earth, so referring to him as God would be no different than any evangelical sect referring to Jesus as God.
_Gazelam
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Post by _Gazelam »

Joseph began the translation useing both the Urim and Thummim and his seerstone. I suppose he preferred the seerstone from the accounts of the witnesses. The use of these was basicly to instruct Joseph in translation. The words would appear, and then their translation. This went on intil Joseph no longer needed the stone and could read and translate himself.

Joseph was known to go back and make changes to revelations all the time. This is no different in the translation of the Book of Mormon. If a change can make a passage more clear, why not do it, hes the prophet! It is his responsibility to make the gospel easy to understand. If he goe sback and re-reads the text, and sees a way to make a point more clear by changeing a word or two, what does it really matter? You'll find more changes if you look at foreign language trranslation I'm sure you'll find even more changes. The fact is, there were no changes of real importance.

What I find even more funny is born again christians who use this arguement against the church while claiming the Bible is the perfect word of God, but don't blink an eye at useing a New World translation over the King James, when in the New Worlds translation Christ is changed into Gods only Son as opposed to only Begotten. Now theres a doctrinal change that matters!
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Polygamy Porter
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Post by _Polygamy Porter »

Gazelam wrote:Ha Ha Ha. Nort kills me.

that's the testimony shakeing evidence that the Book of Mormon isnt true? Grammer? Lets not look at the theology and profound teachings, lets look at whether or not the word "son of" was used in describeing God in the Book of Mormon, or whether to use was or were.

God taught Joseph how to translate, but it was up to a farmboy to dress it in language we could understand. Proper english and grammer arent exactly high on the list of most of the people around back then, just read some of the letters from that time. Emma spoke about how Joseph could hardly compose a proper letter to her.

God works through prophets, and prophets have faults, includeing grammatical ones.

Perfect. God knew he needed to have the Book of Mormon written for a uneducated audience, a bunch of stupid ass suckers.

A dumbass for the dips***s. God is a smart one!
_Polygamy Porter
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Post by _Polygamy Porter »

GASelam wrote:What I find even more funny is born again christians who use this arguement against the church while claiming the Bible is the perfect word of God, but don't blink an eye at useing a New World translation over the King James, when in the New Worlds translation Christ is changed into Gods only Son as opposed to only Begotten. Now theres a doctrinal change that matters!


What I laugh my ass off about is how narrow minded Mormons like you cannot defend the Book of Mormon on its own. They ALWAYS drag the lesser correct book to defend the most correct book. What a bunch of losers.
_richardMdBorn
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Post by _richardMdBorn »

Gazelam wrote:What I find even more funny is born again christians who use this arguement against the church while claiming the Bible is the perfect word of God, but don't blink an eye at useing a New World translation over the King James, when in the New Worlds translation Christ is changed into Gods only Son as opposed to only Begotten. Now theres a doctrinal change that matters!
What's your evidence for this? I've read many evangelical works on the JWs in which the unreliability of the New World translation is emphasized.
_Mephitus
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Post by _Mephitus »

Gazelam wrote:Joseph began the translation useing both the Urim and Thummim and his seerstone. I suppose he preferred the seerstone from the accounts of the witnesses. The use of these was basicly to instruct Joseph in translation. The words would appear, and then their translation. This went on intil Joseph no longer needed the stone and could read and translate himself.

Joseph was known to go back and make changes to revelations all the time. This is no different in the translation of the Book of Mormon. If a change can make a passage more clear, why not do it, hes the prophet! It is his responsibility to make the gospel easy to understand. If he goe sback and re-reads the text, and sees a way to make a point more clear by changeing a word or two, what does it really matter? You'll find more changes if you look at foreign language trranslation I'm sure you'll find even more changes. The fact is, there were no changes of real importance.

What I find even more funny is born again christians who use this arguement against the church while claiming the Bible is the perfect word of God, but don't blink an eye at useing a New World translation over the King James, when in the New Worlds translation Christ is changed into Gods only Son as opposed to only Begotten. Now theres a doctrinal change that matters!


If i remember correctly, there where copies found of the Bible from 4th century AD in original greek.(which would have been an accurate language for the period) The translation of which was found to be something like 98.5% correct comparitivly to the Bible we still have today(KJV if i remember correctly). the differences where mostly names and small word changes.(which i should start a thread on, since some of these name changes are rather interesting) I am by no means saying that its the word of god. i think it is an interesting philosophical/theological book. But i do not hold it to any esteem as something i want to follow.

We also have to remember, that the Book of Mormon was supposed to be the first book that was dictated by god. and as i said in my earlier post, god is supposed to be infallable. would he word things the way they would be better received? or is it more likely that he would word things exactly as he means to? Going off the witness accounts, the words would not translate from joseph unless they where exactly as dictated by the "spiritual light". it leaves absolutly no room whatsoever to deviate from what was given him by god himself. using the christian methodology of thought, god does things exactly as he means to. So any changes would have been literaly against the direct word and command of god!

As far as making changes to personal "revelations" that he received. that i can see as a matter of opinion on 2 things. either A: he was modifying things the way god wanted him to. or B: they didn't work/pan out and so he had to change them so they would be better accepted since he was making them up to begin with.
One nice thing is, ze game of love is never called on account of darkness - Pepe Le Pew
_Gazelam
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Post by _Gazelam »

I don't have a problem with the Bible. I use the King James version, but I understand that there are more correct translations out there, especially if you can read greek or german.

Sono you are incorrect in what you believe as far as the Book of Mormon was translated. God did not dictate it, God assisted in the translation in an effort to instruct a prophet.

Mormon chp.9 vs 31
" Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father, because of his imperfection, neither them who have written before him; but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than we have been."

God doesent just give us things, he makes us earn them.

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Mephitus
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Post by _Mephitus »

I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English." (An Address to All Believers in Christ, by David Whitmer, 1887, page 12)


"'Martin [Harris] explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the prophet and written by Martin, and when finished he would say, "Written," and if correctly written, that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven (sic) on the plates, precisely in the language then used.'" (Myth of the Manuscript Found, Juvenile Instructor Office, 1883 edition, page 91)


So you are saying that the imperfections where caused by man, when the quoted methodology that was used left absolutely no room whatsoever for error?
One nice thing is, ze game of love is never called on account of darkness - Pepe Le Pew
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