harmony wrote:From what I was told, by none other than DCP himself, the Savior did not say these words. We have no words from the Savior. These words were put in the Savior's mouth years later by men who either weren't there or who wanted him to say certain things. We don't know what the Savior said on the cross, or if he said anything at all.
Care to provide a context for Dr. Peterson's assertion? If you can remember when and where this was told directly to you by Dr. Peterson I'll ask him about it tomorrow.
harmony wrote:From what I was told, by none other than DCP himself, the Savior did not say these words. We have no words from the Savior. These words were put in the Savior's mouth years later by men who either weren't there or who wanted him to say certain things. We don't know what the Savior said on the cross, or if he said anything at all.
Care to provide a context for Dr. Peterson's assertion? If you can remember when and where this was told directly to you by Dr. Peterson I'll ask him about it tomorrow.
Depending on how much the thief knew and accepted and if he needed to repent (maybe he was falsely accused?), he may already have been part of the first resurrection (Matthew 27:52-53) in which case he has received judgement and salvation.
It's interesting, BC, that you bring up the point about the thief possibly being falsely accused. Have you read Laurence Gardner's "Bloodline of the Holy Grail"? It's fascinating reading. In some of his research, he makes the assertion that it is quite possible that the thieves Jesus hung on the cross with were actually being crucified for political crimes, and possibly pinned with the crime of being a thief, in addition. Apparently, it is also possible that these two men were part of Jesus' political/religious movement.
I apologize for not having references. I don't have my book at work with me.
harmony wrote:From what I was told, by none other than DCP himself, the Savior did not say these words. We have no words from the Savior. These words were put in the Savior's mouth years later by men who either weren't there or who wanted him to say certain things. We don't know what the Savior said on the cross, or if he said anything at all.
Care to provide a context for Dr. Peterson's assertion? If you can remember when and where this was told directly to you by Dr. Peterson I'll ask him about it tomorrow.
Still waiting harmony.
*yawn* Don't you ever sleep?
It was on ZLMB several years ago. I was using Christ's words to illustrate a point; he informed me that no one knows what Christ said on the cross, or if he said anything, that the words that are attributed to him were written 70 years after his death. And he was right. I chalked it up to one of those things I learned from the Great One.
harmony wrote:From what I was told, by none other than DCP himself, the Savior did not say these words. We have no words from the Savior. These words were put in the Savior's mouth years later by men who either weren't there or who wanted him to say certain things. We don't know what the Savior said on the cross, or if he said anything at all.
Care to provide a context for Dr. Peterson's assertion? If you can remember when and where this was told directly to you by Dr. Peterson I'll ask him about it tomorrow.
Still waiting harmony.
*yawn* Don't you ever sleep?
It was on ZLMB several years ago. I was using Christ's words to illustrate a point; he informed me that no one knows what Christ said on the cross, or if he said anything, that the words that are attributed to him were written 70 years after his death. And he was right. I chalked it up to one of those things I learned from the Great One.
harmony wrote:From what I was told, by none other than DCP himself, the Savior did not say these words. We have no words from the Savior. These words were put in the Savior's mouth years later by men who either weren't there or who wanted him to say certain things. We don't know what the Savior said on the cross, or if he said anything at all.
And DCP knows this because . . . ?
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
I know this is likely to frustrate me going in but here are my questions. When Christ says to the theif on the cross:
"Today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43)
What do LDS interpret this as meaning? What is Paradise? Please define any terms you wish to use.
Thus, the thief on the cross example is not an indication of deathbed repentence leading to salvation nor an indication of salvation immediately after death. The thief still has to have the gospel taught to him and he must be baptised (or have it done by proxy and he accepts).
So was Jesus talking off the top of his crown of thorns or something?
harmony wrote:From what I was told, by none other than DCP himself, the Savior did not say these words. We have no words from the Savior. These words were put in the Savior's mouth years later by men who either weren't there or who wanted him to say certain things. We don't know what the Savior said on the cross, or if he said anything at all.
And DCP knows this because . . . ?
Because he's DCP, and knows everything, and I'm harmony, and know nothing... at least, according to him.
harmony wrote:From what I was told, by none other than DCP himself, the Savior did not say these words. We have no words from the Savior. These words were put in the Savior's mouth years later by men who either weren't there or who wanted him to say certain things. We don't know what the Savior said on the cross, or if he said anything at all.
Care to provide a context for Dr. Peterson's assertion? If you can remember when and where this was told directly to you by Dr. Peterson I'll ask him about it tomorrow.
Still waiting harmony.
*yawn* Don't you ever sleep?
It was on ZLMB several years ago. I was using Christ's words to illustrate a point; he informed me that no one knows what Christ said on the cross, or if he said anything, that the words that are attributed to him were written 70 years after his death. And he was right. I chalked it up to one of those things I learned from the Great One.
Yeah, he and his wife have no idea what you're talking about. He mentioned that a similar situation occured in Cairo long ago when a woman claimed he had taught her that the Bible is only a collection of ancient myths. Dr. Peterson's wife said those are odd situations because Dr. Peterson emphasizes so much the historicity of the biblical account. I can attest to that, because in class he often points out the little quirks in the Bible that testify of its historicity, like having the first witness of the resurrection be a woman, and so forth. If you could produce the alleged post I would be more open to accept this as anything but a falsification, but it seems you're either making stuff up, or you totally misunderstood a comment of his.