The Sin Next to Murder - Critics

[_truth dancer]

Did anyone read the Nov 2006 issue of Sunstone?

In it there is an interesting article by Mike Ash (who is a totally great guy), regarding the "Sin Next to Murder". Mike suggests the sin next to murder may be leading people away from the gospel.

He suggest more than members struggling with the difficult issues, they struggle with their perception of deceit and betrayal once they discover them.

How to remedy the problem...

Have believing member slowly and delicately disclose the issues with appropriate faith promoting information... "inoculate" members just like we do with immunizing children. Give them small doses, carefully, and gently so members will be immune to the crisis of faith.

Miike writes, "The ideal would be to see inoculation introduced in official Church venues - although arguments could be made that such a program is not pragmatic."

I think this is exactly what Bushman did in his latest Joseph Smith bio... he gave just enough information to admit there were some tiny issues, gave the apologetic spin on it, so the information is out there with all the justifications. When people hear more of the story, they fall back on Bushman.

I think this is the classic way PR folks deal with difficult issues coming out into the open with clients.

There is something uncomfortable for me though, that this sort of strategy needs to be considered.

It is as if there is a plan needed to share truth because members will not be able to handle the truth or the reality of what the church is; or there needs to be a way to keep people believing even though the stuff seems pretty difficult to believe.

Just seems to me it should not take such manipulation to believe God's one and only true church.

~dancer~

[_harmony]

Did anyone read the Nov 2006 issue of Sunstone?

In it there is an interesting article by Mike Ash (who is a totally great guy), regarding the "Sin Next to Murder". Mike suggests the sin next to murder may be leading people away from the gospel.

He suggest more than members struggling with the difficult issues, they struggle with their perception of deceit and betrayal once they discover them.

How to remedy the problem...

Have believing member slowly and delicately disclose the issues with appropriate faith promoting information... "inoculate" members just like we do with immunizing children. Give them small doses, carefully, and gently so members will be immune to the crisis of faith.

Miike writes, "The ideal would be to see inoculation introduced in official Church venues - although arguments could be made that such a program is not pragmatic."

I think this is exactly what Bushman did in his latest Joseph Smith bio... he gave just enough information to admit there were some tiny issues, gave the apologetic spin on it, so the information is out there with all the justifications. When people hear more of the story, they fall back on Bushman.

I think this is the classic way PR folks deal with difficult issues coming out into the open with clients.

There is something uncomfortable for me though, that this sort of strategy needs to be considered.

It is as if there is a plan needed to share truth because members will not be able to handle the truth or the reality of what the church is; or there needs to be a way to keep people believing even though the stuff seems pretty difficult to believe.

Just seems to me it should not take such manipulation to believe God's one and only true church.

~dancer~

Manipulating the members is what the leaders of God's true church do best.

I bought Bushman's book for all my children and one for my husband. Last I heard, only one had even attempted to read it. None of them was particularly interested I guess.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Did anyone read the Nov 2006 issue of Sunstone?

In it there is an interesting article by Mike Ash (who is a totally great guy), regarding the "Sin Next to Murder". Mike suggests the sin next to murder may be leading people away from the gospel.

I read that article. I was unimpressed. Has the Church become so desperate to hide/manipulate its history that it now has to argue that discussing/revealing truth to others is "a sin next to murder"? It seems absurd to me. Why are TBM's so afraid of the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

[_asbestosman]

Manipulating the members is what the leaders of God's true church do best.

Do you really think the prophets and apostles are scheming to manipulate us, or do you also consider the possibility (indeed overwhelming liklihood) that they are sincere?

by the way, I find your choice of words to be somewhat humorous. I can almost hear Tigger saying, "Manipulation? That's what Tiggers do best."

The most wonderful thing about Mormons
Is Mormons are wonder things.
Their tarts are made out of Jello
Their children have CTR rings
They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy
Fun, fun, fun, fun, FUN!
But the most wonderful thing about Mormons
Is we're the only ones.
We're the only ones.
(with authoritiy to perform saving ordinances)

[_moksha]

Rollo Tomasi: Why are TBM's so afraid of the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

So, help us God.

Has the Church become so desperate to hide/manipulate its history that it now has to argue that discussing/revealing truth to others is "a sin next to murder"? It seems absurd to me.

Well put. While I think that learning about true history in a supportive context is the best, it is only by learning this history that members can indeed be immunized and gained a new understanding of the truth. Truth is not something to be spun or altered.

[_SleepingWillow]

The most wonderful thing about Mormons
Is Mormons are wonder things.
Their tarts are made out of Jello
Their children have CTR rings
They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy
Fun, fun, fun, fun, FUN!
But the most wonderful thing about Mormons
Is we're the only ones.
We're the only ones.
(with authoritiy to perform saving ordinances)

Thank you for ruining my childhood.

Back on topic: milk before meat. There is no argument that the leaders are manipulative. That's like asking if Pepsi is trying to get me to drink their products with their ads. And just as executives at Pepsi may sincerely believe their product is the most tasty, Church leaders may also believe they're acting in the member's best interests by being manipulative.

It's the method of their manipulation that is the most interesting. So what you have described, truth dancer, is food for thought... and I'm going to have to end my post here because real food has just appeared.

[_Jason Bourne]

Did anyone read the Nov 2006 issue of Sunstone?

In it there is an interesting article by Mike Ash (who is a totally great guy), regarding the "Sin Next to Murder". Mike suggests the sin next to murder may be leading people away from the gospel.

He suggest more than members struggling with the difficult issues, they struggle with their perception of deceit and betrayal once they discover them.

How to remedy the problem...

Have believing member slowly and delicately disclose the issues with appropriate faith promoting information... "inoculate" members just like we do with immunizing children. Give them small doses, carefully, and gently so members will be immune to the crisis of faith.

Miike writes, "The ideal would be to see inoculation introduced in official Church venues - although arguments could be made that such a program is not pragmatic."

I think this is exactly what Bushman did in his latest Joseph Smith bio... he gave just enough information to admit there were some tiny issues, gave the apologetic spin on it, so the information is out there with all the justifications. When people hear more of the story, they fall back on Bushman.

I think this is the classic way PR folks deal with difficult issues coming out into the open with clients.

There is something uncomfortable for me though, that this sort of strategy needs to be considered.

It is as if there is a plan needed to share truth because members will not be able to handle the truth or the reality of what the church is; or there needs to be a way to keep people believing even though the stuff seems pretty difficult to believe.

Just seems to me it should not take such manipulation to believe God's one and only true church.

~dancer~

Perhaps this is what is needed for more mature older members that run into this stuff later in life. But I would also modify what is taught at a lwer lever, in SS for teens and seminary. In the Church history year I would use Bushman's book as the text and make it required reading.

Maybe we need a year of study titles "LDS Contreversies."

[_Jason Bourne]

Did anyone read the Nov 2006 issue of Sunstone?

In it there is an interesting article by Mike Ash (who is a totally great guy), regarding the "Sin Next to Murder". Mike suggests the sin next to murder may be leading people away from the gospel.

He suggest more than members struggling with the difficult issues, they struggle with their perception of deceit and betrayal once they discover them.

How to remedy the problem...

Have believing member slowly and delicately disclose the issues with appropriate faith promoting information... "inoculate" members just like we do with immunizing children. Give them small doses, carefully, and gently so members will be immune to the crisis of faith.

Miike writes, "The ideal would be to see inoculation introduced in official Church venues - although arguments could be made that such a program is not pragmatic."

I think this is exactly what Bushman did in his latest Joseph Smith bio... he gave just enough information to admit there were some tiny issues, gave the apologetic spin on it, so the information is out there with all the justifications. When people hear more of the story, they fall back on Bushman.

I think this is the classic way PR folks deal with difficult issues coming out into the open with clients.

There is something uncomfortable for me though, that this sort of strategy needs to be considered.

It is as if there is a plan needed to share truth because members will not be able to handle the truth or the reality of what the church is; or there needs to be a way to keep people believing even though the stuff seems pretty difficult to believe.

Just seems to me it should not take such manipulation to believe God's one and only true church.

~dancer~

by the way, is this avaibable to read online?

[_Mister Scratch]

Did anyone read the Nov 2006 issue of Sunstone?

In it there is an interesting article by Mike Ash (who is a totally great guy), regarding the "Sin Next to Murder". Mike suggests the sin next to murder may be leading people away from the gospel.

I read that article. I was unimpressed. Has the Church become so desperate to hide/manipulate its history that it now has to argue that discussing/revealing truth to others is "a sin next to murder"? It seems absurd to me. Why are TBM's so afraid of the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

I think the Church has been implicitly warning members against reading the full history for years. Apologists always claim that this has "never been said, ever!" but I don't buy it. This latest hunk of apologetics from MAsh is yet another in a long line of Big Brother-style doublespeak (including BKP's "Mantle" speech) that urges members to avoid embarrassing history.

[_harmony]

Manipulating the members is what the leaders of God's true church do best.

Do you really think the prophets and apostles are scheming to manipulate us, or do you also consider the possibility (indeed overwhelming liklihood) that they are sincere?

by the way, I find your choice of words to be somewhat humorous. I can almost hear Tigger saying, "Manipulation? That's what Tiggers do best."

The most wonderful thing about Mormons
Is Mormons are wonder things.
Their tarts are made out of Jello
Their children have CTR rings
They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy
Fun, fun, fun, fun, FUN!
But the most wonderful thing about Mormons
Is we're the only ones.
We're the only ones.
(with authoritiy to perform saving ordinances)

Unlike Southwest, this made me laugh.