Kathy Worthington has passed away

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_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

Gazelam wrote:I dint mean it as a cheap shot. The woman still exists, "Intelligence was not created nor made, neither indeed can be." and three days after her death a family member will come to collect her and will escort her into the Spirit World. It will be then that she sees how things really are, and will realize that Joseph Smith was the Prophet of the Restoration.

Sorry if anyone took offence.


Rrrriiight.

Well, I guess she'll be in good company with the rest of the 99.9999% of all humanity who failed to realize or never had the opportunity to realize that Josepth Smith really was threatened with death by an angel with a flaming sword if he did not bed comely young lasses.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

First of all bc, that entie thing was nothing but a button pusher. I've been pushing buttons all day hear and on my own in a gang bang situation and just popped that one off.

On the other hand, are you sure this is not possible? The Telestial wicked, upon death, are taken home to "that God who gave them life", but then, the wieght of the revelations and teachings of the Lord's annointed seem to indicate that such an one is then delivered into Outer Darkness for some period of time (until the end of the Millenium, precisely), and is under the domination of Satan while present in this sphere. Your statemenet that such a condition must await the resurrection appears to be incongruent with basic Gospel teaching, which says that those who die the Second Death witll reside in Outer Darkness (Hell) until the end of the Millenium, and will then partake of the Third Resurrection, at which time a final judgement will be past upon them and such will inheret some area of the Telestial Kingdom of glory.

I was not here speaking of the sons or daughters of perdition, but only of "the wicked", or those who have lived a Telestial law while on the earth, in whose case their time in Outer Darkness with Satan will be temporary.
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

First of all bc, that entie thing was nothing but a button pusher.


I know. I was just commenting on the theology of the thing.

I've been pushing buttons all day hear and on my own in a gang bang situation and just popped that one off.


Another button pusher? lol

On the other hand, are you sure this is not possible?


Quite. I suppose the man in red could visit there just as well as he could visit here but the official interview does not take place until after the resurrection.

The Telestial wicked, upon death, are taken home to "that God who gave them life"


Careful here. The immediate afterlife is not the place of salvation. In that very Book of Mormon chapter, it is quite clear that this place is where we are awaiting the resurrection and judgement and it is divided into states for both the wicked and the righteous. They are on that road yes. Since Jesus is that God who gave us life (he is the Creator) and Jesus did go that way, we are simply following in his steps. But are not there yet.

but then, the wieght of the revelations and teachings of the Lord's annointed seem to indicate that such an one is then delivered into Outer Darkness for some period of time (until the end of the Millenium, precisely), and is under the domination of Satan while present in this sphere.


I don't think you can equate the hell before the resurrection with the hell (outer darkness, second death) after. First of all, there is the matter of a lack of a physical body.....

The difference is illustrated in Revelation 20:14 and the second death is there defined as occuring after the resurrection.

Your statemenet that such a condition must await the resurrection appears to be incongruent with basic Gospel teaching, which says that those who die the Second Death witll reside in Outer Darkness (Hell) until the end of the Millenium, and will then partake of the Third Resurrection, at which time a final judgement will be past upon them and such will inheret some area of the Telestial Kingdom of glory.


Feel free to reference that 'basic gospel' teaching. The unrepentent will indeed suffer as Christ suffered (D&C 19:17), but if they deserve the second death, the permanent separation from God, it will not occur until after the resurrection.

I was not here speaking of the sons or daughters of perdition, but only of "the wicked", or those who have lived a Telestial law while on the earth, in whose case their time in Outer Darkness with Satan will be temporary.


Their time in hell will indeed be temporary (D&C 76:84). But where is the mention of the man in the red suit? Like paradise, as in the case of the thief on the cross, is not the place of salvation (as per John 20:17), so likewise is the hell before the resurrection not the place of the second death.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Coggins7 wrote:First of all bc, that entie thing was nothing but a button pusher. I've been pushing buttons all day hear and on my own in a gang bang situation and just popped that one off.

On the other hand, are you sure this is not possible? The Telestial wicked, upon death, are taken home to "that God who gave them life", but then, the wieght of the revelations and teachings of the Lord's annointed seem to indicate that such an one is then delivered into Outer Darkness for some period of time (until the end of the Millenium, precisely), and is under the domination of Satan while present in this sphere. Your statemenet that such a condition must await the resurrection appears to be incongruent with basic Gospel teaching, which says that those who die the Second Death witll reside in Outer Darkness (Hell) until the end of the Millenium, and will then partake of the Third Resurrection, at which time a final judgement will be past upon them and such will inheret some area of the Telestial Kingdom of glory.

I was not here speaking of the sons or daughters of perdition, but only of "the wicked", or those who have lived a Telestial law while on the earth, in whose case their time in Outer Darkness with Satan will be temporary.


Wow... You really are a fundie! Most TBMs reject this notion completely. Instead, you reveal yourself to be one of those whose "heart is filled with hate," evidenced by your rubbing your hands together with glee that those you don't like might have to spend time in Outer Darkness. Not very nice, Loran, and not very Christ-like either.
_Bond...James Bond
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Post by _Bond...James Bond »

People,

This thread was originally started as a memorial thread or remembrance thread. If you want to discuss the afterlife and where people go, please start another thread. I think there has been enough dancing around the poor woman's grave.

Bond
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

People,

This thread was originally started as a memorial thread or remembrance thread. If you want to discuss the afterlife and where people go, please start another thread. I think there has been enough dancing around the poor woman's grave.

Bond


I can appreciate that.

But I can't help but notice the title of the sibling thread in the Celestial forum, that this lady has somehow done more for people than Hinkley. Pretty inflammatory if you ask me. The fact that she associates herself with the opinions of the darkest and most benighted of antiMormons as evidenced by the recommend links on her site is also quite inflammatory. The fact that this is all dredged up and respected by humans is also inflammatory.

I feel the urge to rise to the occaision and contend for the faith as commanded in Jude 1:3. This is not disrespectful. It's simply part of the debate. I can say that here can't I?
_Bond...James Bond
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Post by _Bond...James Bond »

bcspace wrote:
I can appreciate that.

But I can't help but notice the title of the sibling thread in the Celestial forum, that this lady has somehow done more for people than Hinkley. Pretty inflammatory if you ask me. The fact that she associates herself with the opinions of the darkest and most benighted of antiMormons as evidenced by the recommend links on her site is also quite inflammatory. The fact that this is all dredged up and respected by humans is also inflammatory.

I feel the urge to rise to the occaision and contend for the faith as commanded in Jude 1:3. This is not disrespectful. It's simply part of the debate. I can say that here can't I?


Didn't know there was a thread in the Celestial. Carry on if you wish. Only Shades can say no (I doubt he will). I was just talking about the "where is she going" stuff.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
_Dr. Shades
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Post by _Dr. Shades »

Jersey Girl wrote:I sent a PM to liz to see if she can clean this up and move it to the Celestial Forum. What's been done to it is just plain wrong.


Runtu wrote:I really have to get out of here. I've seen some offensive stuff in my time, but this thread takes the cake. I once thought I could do some good and encourage kindness and civility. But I was wrong.


[MODERATOR POST: Although I am a fan of Kathy Worthington, have met both her and her partner, and have visited her home, I think it's only natural that the occasion of a person's death sparks reflection on a person's legacy, which in turn engenders potentially heated commentary if that person's legacy was in any way controversial.

So, although posts easily defined as "cheap shots" have appeared in this thread, I think it's the spirit of this message board that, no matter how many of us may disagree with them, such opinions should be allowed to stand. Let's face it, people take cheap shots at Joseph Smith here every day.

Plus, the fact that this thread was created in the Terrestrial Forum was a signal to all that Terrestrial-level commentary was allowed and/or expected.

Now, rather than parse this thread, split it, edit it, etc., if someone wants to post a memorial thread for Kathy Worthington limited only to positive commentary on her, I strongly believe that the best choice would be to start a brand-new thread in the Celestial Forum to that effect. I promise to police it thoroughly so it doesn't become a repeat of this one.

Sorry, but as a believer in freedom of speech, I'd be a hypocrite if I attempted to deny it to people who disagree with me, e.g. Coggins7 and Gazelam.

If anyone disagrees with this course of action, please don't vote with your feet; please PM me and let's talk it over.]
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

If anyone disagrees with this course of action, please don't vote with your feet; please PM me and let's talk it over.]


A very satisfactory course of action. I apologize for derailing the thread as it was I who turned it into a theological discussion. It is in my nature to look in that direction and comment upon it.

by the way, just because I consider something inflammatory does not mean that I am asking for moderation. I relish the invitation to battle.
_Polygamy Porter
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Post by _Polygamy Porter »

bcspace wrote:I wish to encourage any and all LDS who do not believe and who are unwilling to try and believe to be honest with themselves and their families and resign from the Church.
Now then, why would I want to do that?

First of all I know that I would still be counted. Until they show the resignation numbers along with the XX Millions STRONG, I will not resign.

Second, and please do have this as your final thought before drifting off to sleep each night, it keeps the ward members coming by! I too relish a battle and have been fairly successful at de-converting hardcore TBMs.

I am an exmo missionary. Keeping my membership intact helps the questioning member trust me. *cue insidious loud laughter*

So while someone like you is being a good "member missionary" always on the make for a new sucker, I am too always on the make, for a fresh unwitting chapel Mormon to lure into my MEAT LOCKER!

Not a week goes by that I don't have an opportunity to share the TRUTH with someone. Granted keeping "gentiles" out of the cult is easier than pulling members out, I still enjoy giving out all of the temple secrets to not only associates and friends, but complete strangers that I met out in public who happen to be waiting in line or traveling!

My large family is an asset to striking conversations with folks at work. After the count the kids on my wall portraits, they always ask, "Are you Mormon or catholic?"

"I WAS Mormon", is my initial response...

"WAS?", they will always inquire. Soon I have em rolling in the isles by telling them about the handshakes and why they got rid of the five points of fellowship hug at the giant garment sheet, errr veil...

We have to jobs to do. Mine is to reveal truth and yours is to hide, conceal, and contort the truth.

It is far easier to reveal the truth.

Sleep tight!
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