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John Stewart Mill was, in my opinion, a brilliant and enlightened thinker; clearly a man of vision and deep understanding.

His work, The Subjectin of Women, is a must read for anyone interested in equality, the story of women, and the dynamics of a society who subjugates women.

Mill addresses the many issues and problems occurring in a society that does not allow for equality including how inequality of sexes affects men, how it affects women, how it affects culture, the world, and the ever evolving consciousness of humankind.

I highly recommend the book!

I found the complete book online for anyone interested:

http://www.constitution.org/jsm/women.htm

~dancer~

What's interesting here is that Mill was an early Libertarian, and his understanding of "equality" was wholly different than as understood by the post sixties Feminist movement. Mill believed in equality under the law for all, including woman. Modern Feminism is a form of Cultural Marxism, and hence, has been primarily interested in coerced egalitarianism through the law.

Quite different propositions.

Coggins7 wrote:What's interesting here is that Mill was an early Libertarian, and his understanding of "equality" was wholly different than as understood by the post sixties Feminist movement. Mill believed in equality under the law for all, including woman. Modern Feminism is a form of Cultural Marxism, and hence, has been primarily interested in coerced egalitarianism through the law.

Quite different propositions.

Oh sure. We certainly wouldn't be interested in actually using laws to make someone to be fair... no, not at all.

Hi Loran,

Mill believed in equality under the law for all, including woman.

This is exactly what every feminists I know believes.

Feminism is about equality... equal opportunities, privileges, and rights.


~dancer~

For some reason, when Loran hears the term, "feminism", he equates it with the over the top "femi-Nazi" (Rush Limbaugh term) movement on the extreme left.

I haven't read the book yet, but knowing you, Truth Dancer, I very much doubt that is what you wish to discuss here.

I consider myself a "feminist". I am not a bra-burning extremist. And I think that most of us "normal people" who live in the real world take a more moderate view.

I believe in equal pay for equal work. I also don't think that women are below or subjugated to man in any sense of the word. Men and women should be partners.

Hi Liz...

I haven't read the book yet, but knowing you, Truth Dancer, I very much doubt that is what you wish to discuss here.

I missed the whole bra-burning thing... LOL!

In my experience feminism is about equality. I believe very strongly in this and agree with much of Mill's throughts.

I truly believe that the world is in desperate need of the creativity and unique contributions of women. The whole world suffers when women are not allowed to participate in society as equal members of the human race.

And, relationships absolutely suffer when there is not an equal partnership.

Mills does an excellent job of showing how MEN suffer as does society when women are not considered equal. He also addresses, in a very compassionate way, the difficulties women experience when they are not allowed to fulfill their dreams. Of course these are my words but his point is that women, just like men, when they are denied the opportunity to follow their heart and give their unique gifts to the world, suffer. The suffering brings consequences. When one is denied liberty and opportunity (for something so nonsensical as their body parts or race), there are very unhealthy attributes that come into play as people try to cope with being repressed, denigrated, and subjugated. In addition those who control come to be a very different, and unhealthy human as they repress, denigrate and subjugate others.

The Subjection of Women is a powerful work.

~dancer~

Oh sure. We certainly wouldn't be interested in actually using laws to make someone to be fair... no, not at all.

In a constitutioal Republic, we of course can use laws to create fairness under the law; that is, in accordance with the rule of law. What it is impermissable to do is force people to be equal in an actual material or substantive sense.

Hi Loran...

What it is impermissable to do is force people to be equal in an actual material or substantive sense.

In all my years, and knowing thousands of women and men who consider themselves feminists, I have yet to hear anyone suggest any such thing.

Are you suggesting someone believes people should be forced to be equal in actual material or substantive sense? If so please provide some quote so we know about whom you are talking.

~dancer~

This is exactly what every feminists I know believes.

Feminism is about equality... equal opportunities, privileges, and rights.

What you are describing is the so called "moderate" Feminism, which, unfortunately, all but died after the late sixties. Its still out there, of course, but has no voice in the mainstream media or popular culture, which is dominated by "radical" Feminism, the ideology that licks up all the media and academic gravy. I've been taken to the shed more than once by a local sister about this, and have duely noted the differences. I typically say "feminism" to describe "radical" feminism only because the radical variety is the dominant variety.

What you are describing is the so called "moderate" Feminism, which, unfortunately, all but died after the late sixties. Its still out there, of course, but has no voice in the mainstream media or popular culture, which is dominated by "radical" Feminism, the ideology that licks up all the media and academic gravy. I've been taken to the shed more than once by a local sister about this, and have duely noted the differences. I typically say "feminism" to describe "radical" feminism only because the radical variety is the dominant variety.

But "moderate feminism" is alive and well with those of us who actually live in the real world...and it is that type of feminism which is the topic of this thread. ;)