Joseph Smith believed all sects were false

[_marg]

This morning I was reading from the book Pomeroy Tucker (1802 - 1870)
Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism which is on Dale's site @ http://solomonspalding.com/docs1/1867TucA.htm and I came to the section which I've quoted below from p18.

Mr. Tucker mentions the Smith family were atheists. I don't know much about the entire Smith family, but I've also thought that J. Smith must have been an atheist, possibly a deist. He certainly didn't seem to believe in an interfering God. The reason I think this is because he didn't seem to fear a God for his behavior of extramarital sex. It's obvious he had a penchant for extra marital sex given the Fanny affair and what better way to continue than under the ruse that it is something God wants him to do much to his despair. Polmeroy Tucker, a contemporary of Smith who lived in the same town and observed Smith and family thought the family were atheists. As Tucker pointed out, and what is commonly said, Smith did believe all sects were false. But if we take that further it is likely Smith also believed the Bible was false. Tucker points out that Smith thought the Bible was a fable. by the way...I like atheists. I'm not so sure about atheists who speak on behalf of a God though.

(P 18. Polmeroy Tucker's book: Protracted revival meetings were customary in some of the churches, and Smith frequented those of different denominations, sometimes professing to participate in their devotional exercises. At one time he joined the probationary class of the Methodist church in Palmyra, and made some active demonstrations of engagedness, though his assumed convictions were insufficiently grounded or abiding to carry him along to the saving point of conversion, and he soon withdrew from the class. the final conclusion announced by him was, that all sectarianism was fallacious, all the churches on a false foundation, and the Bible a fable.

In unbelief, theory and practice, the Smith family, all as one, so far as they held any definable position upon the subject of religion -- basing this conclusion upon all the early avowals and other evidences remembered, as well as upon the subsequent developments extant -- were unqualified atheists. Can their mockeries of Christianity, their persistent blasphemies, be accounted for upon any other hypothesis?

[_twinkie]

Have we all been punked?

[_Bond...James Bond]

Have we all been punked?

How so?

[_Jersey Girl]

marg,

Rough Rolling Stone by Richard L. Bushman has some good biographical material in it about the Smith family.

Jersey Girl

[_Jason Bourne]

This morning I was reading from the book Pomeroy Tucker (1802 - 1870)
Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism which is on Dale's site @ http://solomonspalding.com/docs1/1867TucA.htm and I came to the section which I've quoted below from p18.

Mr. Tucker mentions the Smith family were atheists. I don't know much about the entire Smith family, but I've also thought that J. Smith must have been an atheist, possibly a deist. He certainly didn't seem to believe in an interfering God. The reason I think this is because he didn't seem to fear a God for his behavior of extramarital sex. It's obvious he had a penchant for extra marital sex given the Fanny affair and what better way to continue than under the ruse that it is something God wants him to do much to his despair. Polmeroy Tucker, a contemporary of Smith who lived in the same town and observed Smith and family thought the family were atheists. As Tucker pointed out, and what is commonly said, Smith did believe all sects were false. But if we take that further it is likely Smith also believed the Bible was false. Tucker points out that Smith thought the Bible was a fable. by the way...I like atheists. I'm not so sure about atheists who speak on behalf of a God though.

(P 18. Polmeroy Tucker's book: Protracted revival meetings were customary in some of the churches, and Smith frequented those of different denominations, sometimes professing to participate in their devotional exercises. At one time he joined the probationary class of the Methodist church in Palmyra, and made some active demonstrations of engagedness, though his assumed convictions were insufficiently grounded or abiding to carry him along to the saving point of conversion, and he soon withdrew from the class. the final conclusion announced by him was, that all sectarianism was fallacious, all the churches on a false foundation, and the Bible a fable.

In unbelief, theory and practice, the Smith family, all as one, so far as they held any definable position upon the subject of religion -- basing this conclusion upon all the early avowals and other evidences remembered, as well as upon the subsequent developments extant -- were unqualified atheists. Can their mockeries of Christianity, their persistent blasphemies, be accounted for upon any other hypothesis?

Tucker is certianly wrong. The Smith family were quite relicous in many aspects and this is demostratably so by all the histories about them. Joseph Senior was most likely a diest and if I recall correctly his father tread this path with a Univeralist bend. Lucy Smith was very religous and joined the Presbyterian Church in Palmyra. The family activity often did center around reading the Bible.

[_twinkie]

Have we all been punked?

How so?

If they were athiests, then wouldn't it be interesting to see if they could dupe a whole lot of people?

[_marg]

Tucker is certianly wrong. The Smith family were quite relicous in many aspects and this is demostratably so by all the histories about them. Joseph Senior was most likely a diest and if I recall correctly his father tread this path with a Univeralist bend. Lucy Smith was very religous and joined the Presbyterian Church in Palmyra. The family activity often did center around reading the Bible.

What do you mean by "religious" Bond? Do you think J. Smith believed in an interfering sort of God? The reason I think he didn't is because he knew darn well, it was all a hoax, just like his treasure seeking hoaxes. He appreciated the credulity of people. His institution of polygamy was another tip off, being so convenient following his being caught by his wife with Fanny. If his father was a deist, what gives you the impression he wasn't?

This I read today on the spalding thread written by Dale:

IN 1830 the Rev. David Marks was traveling through western New York and there he heard of the recent publication of a very strange book. When Marks heard the claims being made for this book -- that it told the hitherto unpublished story of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas -- it occurred to him that the book, if true, might help answer some questions he had been pondering about the origin of the ancient earthworks of the Ohio Valley. In his 1831 account of his encounter with that strange book, Rev Marks says:


"When I was in Ohio, I had quite a curiosity to know the origin of the numerous mounds and remains of ancient fortifications that abound in that section of the country; but could not find that any thing satisfactory was known on the subject. Having been told that the 'Book of Mormon' gave a history of them, and of their authors, some desire was created in my mind to see the book, that I might learn the above particulars. I wished to read it, but could not, in good conscience, purchase a copy, lest I should support a deception; so they lent me one, and I read two hundred and fifty pages; but was greatly disappointed in the style and interest of the work... I thought it probably had been written originally by an infidel, to see how much he could impose on the credulity of men, and to get money. Yet, I expected they would make converts; for there are many people who are fond of new things; and there is scarcely any system so absurd as to obtain no advocates. "

Rev. Mark had a good point. There are ideas so absurd in the Book of Mormon that one would think as he suggests "it probably had been written originally by an infidel, to see how much he could impose on the credulity of men, and to get money."

As far as Lucy Smith attending church being an indication of being very religous, many women do attend for social and family reasons irrespective of religious beliefs. I believe she had a brother who was a Seeker who started up a communal sect in Canada. So not only was she aware of the notion of opposing all current religious groups and starting up one's own, but Seekers seem to me to be a unique sort. A leader of one would be the sort to be skeptical of all religious claims, similar to a deist. So she has that background in her family.

[_The Dude]

If they were athiests, then wouldn't it be interesting to see if they could dupe a whole lot of people?

From reading "Salamander" I've got the impression that one of Mark Hofman's motivations was to see if he could dupe a whole lot of people. Apparently he became an atheist (a deeply amoral atheist) sometime during his mission in England.

[_Runtu]

If they were athiests, then wouldn't it be interesting to see if they could dupe a whole lot of people?

From reading "Salamander" I've got the impression that one of Mark Hofman's motivations was to see if he could dupe a whole lot of people. Apparently he became an atheist (a deeply amoral atheist) sometime during his mission in England.

Well, if a mission doesn't turn you into an amoral atheist, nothing will. ;-)

I'm not sure what to make of Joseph's belief in God. Obviously, he wasn't afraid that he'd face any kind of judgment for what he did. He was not, it seems, a man wracked by remorse.

[_why me]

I'm not sure what to make of Joseph's belief in God. Obviously, he wasn't afraid that he'd face any kind of judgment for what he did. He was not, it seems, a man wracked by remorse.

Not true. Joseph Smith was not a happy go lucky guy. He knew his calling and he took it seriously. He also felt all the pain and glory of his calling. Read Bushman and see the man. Joseph Smith also had an understanding of god and his commitment to god on earth. Thus, his prayer to god about the correct church. He wanted a god-fearing life. Instead, he became a prophet based on revelation and visions. It just goes to show that one needs to be careful about prayer. God can answer in strange ways.