Daniel C. Peterson's book

[_Bond...James Bond]

Hmmm.

Two Cumorahs and three Scratches? Interesting theories, to be sure. ;-)

I think I know the cover of the next FAIR Review: A Tale of Two Scratches: The Unmasking of a Critic by Dr. Daniel C. Peterson.

I'm reminded of the time I was accused on MADB of being a sock puppet for Rollo Tomasi. But everyone knows I'm much better looking than he is.

You certainly are....uh at least that's what I hear..... :)

[_Runtu]

Hmmm.

Two Cumorahs and three Scratches? Interesting theories, to be sure. ;-)

I think I know the cover of the next FAIR Review: A Tale of Two Scratches: The Unmasking of a Critic by Dr. Daniel C. Peterson.

And we'll get the predictable responses:

"It is entirely irrelevant to discuss how many Scratches there are. One lying, deceitful, bigoted, evil hater is enough for that sty they call a message board."

"Why bother discussing a fundamentalist cheerleader? We all know that these are pseudointellectual wannabes who wouldn't last a day in my graduate program at Claremont."

"I find the obsessiveness from all three disturbingly endearing. If I were anything like the cult loon that Mr. Bachman describes, Mr. Scratch should be very afraid. I think I'll eat a donut instead."

"I'm glad this place has been rid of such rude and vulgar critics. Now I can post about diarrhea and my sex life freely."

"All three Scratches need to focus on WORKABLE solutions for building up relationships while avoiding the kind of DESTRUCTIVE criticism that might put the church in a bad light."

"Don't look now, but they're discussing this thread over on that obsession board. Does anyone doubt that they're evil?"

[_Bond...James Bond]

I think I know the cover of the next FAIR Review: A Tale of Two Scratches: The Unmasking of a Critic by Dr. Daniel C. Peterson.

And we'll get the predictable responses:

"It is entirely irrelevant to discuss how many Scratches there are. One lying, deceitful, bigoted, evil hater is enough for that stye they call a message board."

"Why bother discussing a fundamentalist cheerleader? We all know that these are pseudointellectual wannabes who wouldn't last a day in my graduate program at Claremont."

"I find the obsessiveness from all three disturbingly endearing. If I were anything like the cult loon that Mr. Bachman describes, Mr. Scratch should be very afraid. I think I'll eat a donut instead."

"I'm glad this place has been rid of such rude and vulgar critics. Now I can post about diarrhea and my sex life freely."

"All three Scratches need to focus on WORKABLE solutions for building up relationships while avoiding the kind of DESTRUCTIVE criticism that might put the church in a bad light."

And how would Hinckley respond:

"I don't know that we teach that Scratch is a critic. It's in the past. It's in the past. As long as we focus on Joseph Chri...I mean Jesus Christ"

[_Runtu]

And how would Hinckley respond:

"I don't know that we teach that Scratch is a critic. It's in the past. It's in the past. As long as we focus on Joseph Chri...I mean Jesus Christ"

Monson: Back when I was a bishop in the largest ward in the church, a widow I knew, Inez D. Hansen, had a dog named Scratch. On her deathbed, I promised her that I'd find that dog a home. On the day that Bishop T. Harold Dawson picked up that dog, I was reminded of the poem by Edgar Guest ...

Packer: Scratch? Isn't the he one who got punched out by his missionary companion? Well, someone had to do it.

Scott: Scratch, if you have not already repented of criticizing Dr. Peterson, I plead with you to do so now.

[_Bond...James Bond]

And we'll get the predictable responses:

"It is entirely irrelevant to discuss how many Scratches there are. One lying, deceitful, bigoted, evil hater is enough for that sty they call a message board."

"Why bother discussing a fundamentalist cheerleader? We all know that these are pseudointellectual wannabes who wouldn't last a day in my graduate program at Claremont."

"I find the obsessiveness from all three disturbingly endearing. If I were anything like the cult loon that Mr. Bachman describes, Mr. Scratch should be very afraid. I think I'll eat a donut instead."

"I'm glad this place has been rid of such rude and vulgar critics. Now I can post about diarrhea and my sex life freely."

"All three Scratches need to focus on WORKABLE solutions for building up relationships while avoiding the kind of DESTRUCTIVE criticism that might put the church in a bad light."

"Don't look now, but they're discussing this thread over on that obsession board. Does anyone doubt that they're evil?"

More MAD posters speak up:

"I have a testimony from the Holy Ghost that there are three Scratches."

"Not only is Scratch an anti-Mormon critic, rumor has it that he's an evangelical. Now let's get to work on ripping apart 'once saved always saved'."

"Daniel Peterson is always right. Daniel Peterson is always right. Daniel Peterson is always right...."

[_Doctor Steuss]

Regarding Dr. Peterson's scholarship, Mike Ash posted this on the other board:

Just for kicks I emailed Dr. Hossein Ziai, professor in the Near Eastern Languages & Culture Dept. at UCLA. He has authored numerous works on his specialty (his bio can be found here:http://www.nelc.ucla.edu/Faculty/Ziai.htm)

I asked him if he was familiar with Dr. Peterson & his scholarship (I had no reason to question Dr. Peterson's academic integrity, but I was curious about Tal's "survey" when he first published it on RFM). This was Dr. Ziai's reply in its entirety:


Dear Mr. Ash,
Thank you. Dr. Peterson is a fine scholar of Islam. He has played a
very important, leadership role in helping to establish the Middle
East Text Initiative (METI) at BYU. His work as Managing Editor of
the METI publications is superb. The publication series has made
lasting contribution to the scholarly activity on Islamic
intellectual traditions. This has provided a forum and a means of
allowing meaningful, non polemic, and non apologetic studies and
texts in Arabic and Persian philosophical and other intellectual
traditions to be published in a bilingual format and thus made
available to wider audiences. This is especially important as there
is need both within Islamic studies to encourage and indeed nurture
the role of reason and solidify rationality, and also to inform the
non specialist audiences that there is a place for reason in Islam
which we must recognize, solidify, and uphold. These are very complex
times and the more we devote studies to the rationalist traditions of
philosophy and science in Islam the more we may be able to combat
irrational and hate driven polemics and other propagandist work. Dr.
Daniel Peterson has indeed established himself as a well respected
scholar and publisher of much needed scholarly work in Islamic
studies in general, and of the philosophical tradition in particular.
I personally have a great deal of respect for Dr. Peterson's work.
Please share this with Dr. Peterson in and related to LDS studies you
are involved at BYU, or elsewhere.
Sincerely,
Hossein Ziai

[_dartagnan]

I find it interesting that anyone would think the METI is somehow combating “irrational and hate driven polemics and other propagandist work.”

From my understanding, it was a collaborative effort to translate older Islamic sources that have yet to be translated to English. Or is there something more to it than that? Is Dan writing commentaries alongside the translations? Something akin to “See, Al Ghazali seemed like a reasonable fellow, so it is wrong for bigots to assume all Muslims throughout history have jihad on their minds”?

One thing that struck me was the fact that these works had never been published in English. Doesn’t this say something about their significance, or more to the point, lack thereof? Dan convinced the higher powers at BYU and possibly the Church, to fund such a project. He should get credit for that I think. But I am still struck by the fact that numerous other Universities, which had plenty of funding to complete such a project, never endeavored to do so.

But one thing is for sure. This project has earned BYU much credit from intelligentsia around the globe.

I also noticed that some of those whom Ziai would consider “hate driven,”are taking advantage of these translations. Robert Spencer lists it in his footnotes on more than a few occasions.

[_Mister Scratch]

somebody on RfM is using my name. How interesting! I actually have a registered account at RfM, so if you want to know if it is genuinely yours truly posting over there, you had better look for a "Mister Scratch" without an "unregistered" after the name.

Scratch, were you regstered at RfM last year whn Dr. Peterson found the lovely quote you denied was from you?

I registered at RfM around the same time I registered at FAIR.

Was the person who made that statement signed in?

I don't know. DCP claims to maintain a kind of RfM "Archive," but I have no way of knowing how he does this, or how he maintains it, etc. I would like to give Prof. P. the benefit of the doubt, and assume that he simply made a mistake, but who knows? All I know is that I am not guilty of what he accused me of. I will happily admit to other times when I've verbally insulted him, but this just wasn't one of them.

Are there any archives available to double-check?

Aside from the one DCP supposedly personally maintains, No, I don't think so.

Listening to Dr. Petsrson's recounting of events and then yours has left me thoroughly confused.

Yes, I still have a long series of emails in which I went back and forth with the Good Professor, but he had made up his mind about me before the conversation even began.

[_asbestosman]

I don't know. DCP claims to maintain a kind of RfM "Archive," but I have no way of knowing how he does this, or how he maintains it, etc. I would like to give Prof. P. the benefit of the doubt, and assume that he simply made a mistake, but who knows? All I know is that I am not guilty of what he accused me of. I will happily admit to other times when I've verbally insulted him, but this just wasn't one of them.

To the best of your knowledge, how do you think events played out?

1) You registered at FAIR & RfM
2) An impersonator of Mister Scratch at RfM calls Dr. Peterson a "douche bag"
3) You criticize racism
4) Dr. Peterson digs up the "douche bag" quote.
5) You deny that you said it.
6) You engage in a thread at RfM about missionary showers and admit you are the one from FAIR
7) Dr. Peterson finds this remark
8) Nomos bans you.

Is this about right in your estimation? If not, can you please give your order of events? Another theory is, of course, that all Mister Scratches are one and the same, but that you were just trying to remain at FAIR as long as possible.

[_Mister Scratch]

I don't know. DCP claims to maintain a kind of RfM "Archive," but I have no way of knowing how he does this, or how he maintains it, etc. I would like to give Prof. P. the benefit of the doubt, and assume that he simply made a mistake, but who knows? All I know is that I am not guilty of what he accused me of. I will happily admit to other times when I've verbally insulted him, but this just wasn't one of them.

To the best of your knowledge, how do you think events played out?

1) You registered at FAIR & RfM
2) An impersonator of Mister Scratch at RfM calls Dr. Peterson a "douche bag"
3) You criticize racism
4) Dr. Peterson digs up the "douche bag" quote.
5) You deny that you said it.
6) You engage in a thread at RfM about missionary showers and admit you are the one from FAIR
7) Dr. Peterson finds this remark
8) Nomos bans you.

Is this about right in your estimation? If not, can you please give your order of events? Another theory is, of course, that all Mister Scratches are one and the same, but that you were just trying to remain at FAIR as long as possible.

That is pretty close, however I think your items 1 & 2 should be flip-flopped. The date on DCP's quote of the "douche bag" post is marked some time in March, whereas I registered at the ironically named FAIRboard and RfM closer to June. I am also unsure where you ought to put the 4) on your list... RfM does not maintain an archive beyond 10 days or so (I believe), so wherever this "douche bag" quote came from is anybody's guess. Supposedly, DCP maintains an "archive" of quotes, or so he says. (Yes: it is possible that DCP totally fabricated the quote in order to smear me, though I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.)

Edited to add: I noticed that the post DCP cited appears to have been altered from the standard RfM format. Thus it seems that, at the very least, DCP was monkeying with the date for some reason.