Is re-existence taught in the scriptures

[_grampa75]

I have been wondering about the teaching of re-existence or reincarnation for some time. Now I would just like to enter a few teachings one from the Bible and one from the Prophet Joseph Smith. I copied down two teachings on my computer that I will list here and I would most certainly like to hear how others feel about the teaching that has bothered me for some time.

St. John 5: 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do; for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth; and he will shew him greater things than these, that ye may marvel.

21. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Power of the Father and the Son. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg 346

I wish I was in a suitable place to tell it, and that I had the trump of an archangel, so that I could tell the story in such a manner that persecution would cease for ever. What did Jesus say? (Mark it Elder Rigdon!) The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power-----to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious----in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do we believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it

There is one other scripture that I will write and ask your opinion as to whether or not Christ was once a man who had to overcome all His disobedience. Apparently, or as it seems to suggest to me in a small way, that Christ first overcame all of his disobedience until HE became worthy of being a God and Savior.

Hebrews 5: 8 Though he were a son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9. And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all those who believe on his name.

Say for example if the correct interpretation of St. John 5 is that Christ's Father was also a Savior since he raised the dead, which He did not do here on our earth, and Christ's Father made those whom he had raised from the dead immortal, (or quickened) Is that suggesting that Christ's Father could have been Christ's Savior on some other world?????

One other teaching seems to me to suggest the same thing. The LDS teach that at sometime in our Eternal Existence we may become a God ourselves. Apparently the only God there is on our earth is Jesus Christ, so I believe we can assume that the only God we may be able to aspire to is a God like Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ's Father. Now if that is the true interpretation then there would be no doubt that at least those who becomes a Savior like Jesus Christ and His Father would have to overcome the sins of this world to ever be a God. That is teaching then that in the case of Jesus Christ as being the God we may become, we would have to re-exist and be born to, Perhaps, a Mary and have a man like Joseph to rear us. Now that is most certainly the teaching of re-existence.

One other teaching of Christ tends for me to question it.

St. John 14: 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He thqa believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to the Father.

I have to say that no one will ever be able to do the works and miracles that Christ unless He too were a God like Christ.

I would certainly like to have your opinions on this subject. It has made me wonder about it for years.

Thanks to those who help me

grampa75

[_gramps]

Hi Grampa75.

That is a lot of stuff your working through, considering this and your other posts. It seems some of us might need to get off these boards, go outside, and listen to the birds start singing again, now that Spring is almost here.

Maybe putting your hands in some fresh dirt and preparing the soil to plant some vegetables or flowers when it gets a little warmer?

Wrestling meaning out of scriptures and Joseph Smith sermons can be tiring work, to be sure. But good luck. I don't have any answers for you, except for the advice above. I think I will heed my own as well. It's time to get the soil ready for a new growing season.

[_Runtu]

Hi Grampa75.

That is a lot of stuff your working through, considering this and your other posts. It seems some of us might need to get off these boards, go outside, and listen to the birds start singing again, now that Spring is almost here.

Maybe putting your hands in some fresh dirt and preparing the soil to plant some vegetables or flowers when it gets a little warmer?

Wrestling meaning out of scriptures and Joseph Smith sermons can be tiring work, to be sure. But good luck. I don't have any answers for you, except for the advice above. I think I will heed my own as well. It's time to get the soil ready for a new growing season.

I guess the first question to ask is whether Joseph's words carry any validity in discussing the nature of godhood. Then you can start discussing their meaning and import.

For what it's worth, back when I was a believer, I always took that statement to mean that God the Father had been a Savior during His mortal life.

[_gramps]

Hi Grampa75.

That is a lot of stuff your working through, considering this and your other posts. It seems some of us might need to get off these boards, go outside, and listen to the birds start singing again, now that Spring is almost here.

Maybe putting your hands in some fresh dirt and preparing the soil to plant some vegetables or flowers when it gets a little warmer?

Wrestling meaning out of scriptures and Joseph Smith sermons can be tiring work, to be sure. But good luck. I don't have any answers for you, except for the advice above. I think I will heed my own as well. It's time to get the soil ready for a new growing season.

I guess the first question to ask is whether Joseph's words carry any validity in discussing the nature of godhood. Then you can start discussing their meaning and import.

For what it's worth, back when I was a believer, I always took that statement to mean that God the Father had been a Savior during His mortal life.

I agree with you. That is what I always thought "and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it."

[_bcspace]

From the LDS pov, 're-existence' is not taught in the scriptures. What is taught is that we have always existed and will continue to exist in some form or another.