Teen Suicide, licked cupcakes, adoption & the Mormon Tal

[_harmony]

I know a few licked cupcakes with a child who went on to marry in the temple to great guys. It's more difficult, but that's not a reason to give up your baby.

I don't know how many people you know who were adopted but I know several. Most of them had parents who became pregnant in high school, were encouraged by their parents to adopt out the child, and were able to finish high school, go to college etc. So many of them found their parents later on and discovered they had entire families, some were pure blood siblings. I think you can imagine the pain of finding out you could have been with your biological parents and siblings, but were born at the wrong time. I am very proud of my friends and family members who sacrificed by keeping their babies, despite the church and their parents telling them to give it away. They all went on to receive an education and marry. They can't imagine choosing a different path.

The pain these children go through from being given away by their parents is something only the adopted child can know, and many have explained it to me. It caused great harm to find out they could have been raised in a good home by their biological parents. I could go into more detail later about a friend of mine who told me of the connection you feel to your own blood and how important that was for her to find them.

Do you think as a parent you would regret giving your baby away for an easier education?

My point is, the church should think about the consequences of giving a child away for the pain it causes the child and parents for a lifetime over the short term benefits of attending college childless. They want these babies farmed out to active LDS homes so the kid has a better chance of being a faithful LDS. Why not support the parents as a church and help them raise the child as LDS too?

You're pretty smart, for a youngster. ;-)

My daughter has a friend who is a divorcee with an 8 year old son. The girl wants to have a boyfriend and get married again, but finding an LDS man who willingly looks beyond the child to the woman is nigh onto impossible where we live. she despairs of ever finding a mate.

My daughter has given up any hope, and is saving to be able to adopt. she figures she'll have enough in a couple of years. She refuses to allow anyone to dictate what her life will be like, including some nonexistent LDS man who might decide at some point (perhaps too late) that she would make a suitable wife. She wants to be a mother, so her choices are either adopt or artificial insemination. She'll try the former first, and if that isn't satisfactory, she'll do the latter, knowing the consequences going in. It's not ideal, but neither is waiting on some LDS man to decide his comfortable life could use a little shaking up.

[_Yoda]

I know a few licked cupcakes with a child who went on to marry in the temple to great guys. It's more difficult, but that's not a reason to give up your baby.

I don't know how many people you know who were adopted but I know several. Most of them had parents who became pregnant in high school, were encouraged by their parents to adopt out the child, and were able to finish high school, go to college etc. So many of them found their parents later on and discovered they had entire families, some were pure blood siblings. I think you can imagine the pain of finding out you could have been with your biological parents and siblings, but were born at the wrong time. I am very proud of my friends and family members who sacrificed by keeping their babies, despite the church and their parents telling them to give it away. They all went on to receive an education and marry. They can't imagine choosing a different path.

The pain these children go through from being given away by their parents is something only the adopted child can know, and many have explained it to me. It caused great harm to find out they could have been raised in a good home by their biological parents. I could go into more detail later about a friend of mine who told me of the connection you feel to your own blood and how important that was for her to find them.

Do you think as a parent you would regret giving your baby away for an easier education?

My point is, the church should think about the consequences of giving a child away for the pain it causes the child and parents for a lifetime over the short term benefits of attending college childless. They want these babies farmed out to active LDS homes so the kid has a better chance of being a faithful LDS. Why not support the parents as a church and help them raise the child as LDS too?

I have friends in both types of circumstances. My roommate in college was adopted with her twin brother. She knew she was adopted, and didn't have a lot of angst about it. She was grateful that her birth mother had given her life, and not had an abortion...and she loved her adoptive parents who raised her.

I also have a cousin who was adopted. My aunt didn't think she could have children, and actually became pregnant shortly after she brought my adopted cousin home. He always felt that there was a stronger bond between his brother and my aunt than the relationship he had because my aunt birthed his brother.

Having three children myself, I do understand the unmistakable bond that happens when you give birth to a child. I think that giving a child up for adoption would be the most difficult decision a young woman could make. Those who do give the baby up for adoption, in my opinion, are performing a very selfless act. They are trying to make sure that their baby is provided for, knowing that they won't be able to see that baby grow up. They are also allowing a couple who may not be able to have children the opportunity to be parents.

There is a lady in my ward who could not have children. She and her husband adopted two children through LDS Social Services. These kids are very well-adjusted, and my friend is an excellent mother. I can't imagine her not being a mother. It's wonderful that she was given that opportunity.

I suppose that my convoluted point in all of this, is that I don't think there is one answer that fits all circumstances.

A teen-aged mother who is pregnant should have all of the facts, have family support, and make a decision that is going to work best for her in her circumstances.

[_guy sajer]

I have to disagree somewhat. I think 15 or 16 year old single girls trying to raise babies on their own is a recipe for disaster, and I agree that it's probably, in general, a better idea to give the kid up for adoption so that the kid has the greatest chance of growing up in a functional family. For heaven's sake, let the 15 or 16 year old kid finish up high school, go on to college and finish preparing for a real life. They're only 15 or 16, there's plenty of time to make it real and be ready to do the family thing when they're in a better position to do so and make it fair for the kids.

Of course, they'll be a licked cupcake and all that that entails, but it's still probably better off dealing with that later on in life, than to put the kids through the ringer of living in poverty with a single mom who isn't ready to be a functional parent and family leader at this point in her life. If anything, a "licked cupcake" who's 24 years old with an 8 year old kid will have it a hell of a lot worse in the LDS meat market than a licked cupcake with no kid, but an adopted child 8 years in her past.

I agree. I don't care so much about blood as I do about the child being raised in a stable family. That's unlikely to happen when the parents are teenagers.

Not if the Grandparents or other family members help support the mother and father in some way.

I have a few friends who were adopted by LDS families and they would disagree with you. Blood is more important to the child than you may realize. There is also no guarantee the adoptive parents are more stable or better parents than the teenage mother. I could have raised a child as a teen and sacrificed my social life, still gone to College and made someting of myself. I have a few friends who did just that. They had no support from the father, but received government help and family help. The church could help support the mother and father make rather than taking the child away. in my opinion, that is in the child's best interest as well. (unless there is abuse)

I agree that, all else equal, raising the child in an in-tact, stable family is preferable to a teen-age girl attempting to raise the child, even with family support. This is, however, a generalization and I concede there may be exceptions. Were my daughters to become pregnant, I would probably encourage them to put the child up for adoption also, though not necessarily to LDS services. (Although I should say that in my experience, LDS Social Services provides a very valuable and effective adoption service. My brother adopted 3 children through LDS Social Services.) But this is all theoretical; were it actually to happen, I concede that my view might change.

[_Seven]

A teen-aged mother who is pregnant should have all of the facts, have family support, and make a decision that is going to work best for her in her circumstances.

Can you see how the church showing a video encouraging teens and grandparents to be "selfless" and give the child up is another way of pressuring them to do something that may not be in the child's best interest?

There are millions of children in the world that need homes and adoptive parents. These are children who are orphans from parents that have been killed from disease, drug addicts, victims of crime, natural disaster orphans, abuse,starvation, etc. With all these children eligible for adoption, there are plenty of opportunities for parents who wish to adopt to have the chance. I have always had a very strong desire to adopt children before I was married and even more so now that I have my own children. It's a gift I can give the parent who is unable to raise them. I am not against this at all and encourage it.

My problem is the church taking children away from parents who are able to raise them and grandparents who want to help. The video discouraged this and puts pressure on the LDS families to give the child up. All so that the child has a better chance of becoming the faithful LDS and raised in the picture perfect Mormon family. Never mind the impact this will make on the child in the future to find out their parents gave them up so they could receive an education free from responsibility.

It is very selfless and heartbreaking for a mother to give up her child knowing that she can't take care of it. I won't disagree with that.

I also know children who had wonderful adoptive parents and they are grateful to them but there is still a bond they can't explain with their biological parents. I had a friend relate a very powerful memory of when she was taken from her mother as a baby. She remembered things that she later found out were not in her imagination and when she met her mother in her adult years, the memory was confirmed. It sounds impossible, but I believe her. She was also very relieved to find her birth parents and siblings because there were many parts of her personality that didn't mesh with her adoptive parents.
When she met her mother and found how much they had in common, it was very fulfilling for her.

[_Trinity]

For those more sensitive to the practical difficulties in raising a child, how do you feel about listing abortion as an alternative choice for a pregnant teen?

[_guy sajer]

For those more sensitive to the practical difficulties in raising a child, how do you feel about listing abortion as an alternative choice for a pregnant teen?

I oppose abortion on principle (but I am not a "pro-lifer"), so I would never recommend an abortion (short of the usual exceptions, health of mother, exteme physical deformity, rape, etc.). I would argue strongly for putting the baby up for adoption. There are so many families out there just waiting for a child who can give the baby a loving home; I cannot see the case for abortion when adoption is a realistic option.