What the MADmods Don't Know

[_Ray A]

Who started this? WE started this! We called people names, denigrated their spirituality and their churches, broke apart families, made promises we had no intention of keeping, defrauded the public, lied from the pulpit... you name it, it's in our history. We are now reaping what our ancestors sowed. The law of the harvest still holds true.

PS. Pahoran isn't a Mormon Terminator. Pahoran is a barking little dog, chasing cars and congratulating himself when they speed on by him.

"We"? Who is "we"? Does your bishop know what you write here? Does your husband?

[_beastie]

This is the message, Shades: We are tired of it!! Enough is enough. It does not matter that you've defended DCP a couple of times. But since this is a free speech board mud is going to be thrown. Do you expect US to sit back and cop all the mud?

Geez, I don't know why I continue to bother, but I will say, once again:

Ray, you admitted that the institutionalized bigotry against apostates not only exists in Mormonism, but is such an ingrained part of the belief system you cannot imagine it ever changing.

As you admit that, you say that your advice to exmormons is to: "Wear It".

Yet now you hypocritically charge exmormons with "starting it", and hence justifying your own bad behavior and the bad behavior of some of your cronies.

Exmormons lived in a belief system that has taught them, since day one, that apostates - people who reject Mormonism, (I already provided evidence that church leaders and church manuals do NOT make the distinction between "apostates" and "leave-takers" that others do) - are lazy, evil, sinful, proud, etc etc. In short, there is not one legitimate reason to lose faith in the LDS church. When it happens, it is entirely due to the flawed character or behavior of the apostate.

When we do lose faith for legitimate reasons, obviously we object to these insulting characterizations, particularly when we discover the seamier side of church history that makes it plain there are PLENTY of legitimate reasons to lose faith in the LDS church. Knowing that the believers we still love have often swallowed this baloney from their leaders, who are, after all, speaking for Jesus Christ, is maddening, particularly when it directly begins to infect those relationships. I was a lucky one. Many are not.

So we are supposed to just "wear this" nonsense? We can't even laugh at the most ridiculous and inane pieces of apologia that MAD produces without being accused of being Lutherite hate mongers?

And when we object, and point out the myriad legitimate reasons to lose faith in the LDS church, you accuse us of not leaving well enough alone. It's ancient history, why stir it up? You're only trying to embarrass Mormons, you say. You are trying to spread your hatred of Mormons. You're going to inspire acts of violence, blood will be on your hands.

Then when some exmormons, either due to personality or, as you say, saying enough is enough get personal and nasty, we're evil incarnate.

Oh, and by the way, for those of you shocked that Ray called me a b****, you obviously have not read the thread in question (shout out to renegade). That is just one of many vulgarities and personal attacks Ray has launched at me and others. His behavior has gone beyond anything I have ever previously witnessed, on any board. His behavior is irrational and frightening.

Thank god I don't use my real name on the internet. Ray is exactly the type of person I would NOT want knowing that information.

[_Ray A]

Geez, I don't know why I continue to bother, but I will say, once again:

Ray, you admitted that the institutionalized bigotry against apostates not only exists in Mormonism, but is such an ingrained part of the belief system you cannot imagine it ever changing.

As you admit that, you say that your advice to exmormons is to: "Wear It".

Yet now you hypocritically charge exmormons with "starting it", and hence justifying your own bad behavior and the bad behavior of some of your cronies.

Exmormons lived in a belief system that has taught them, since day one, that apostates - people who reject Mormonism, (I already provided evidence that church leaders and church manuals do NOT make the distinction between "apostates" and "leave-takers" that others do) - are lazy, evil, sinful, proud, etc etc. In short, there is not one legitimate reason to lose faith in the LDS church. When it happens, it is entirely due to the flawed character or behavior of the apostate.

When we do lose faith for legitimate reasons, obviously we object to these insulting characterizations, particularly when we discover the seamier side of church history that makes it plain there are PLENTY of legitimate reasons to lose faith in the LDS church. Knowing that the believers we still love have often swallowed this baloney from their leaders, who are, after all, speaking for Jesus Christ, is maddening, particularly when it directly begins to infect those relationships. I was a lucky one. Many are not.

So we are supposed to just "wear this" nonsense? We can't even laugh at the most ridiculous and inane pieces of apologia that MAD produces without being accused of being Lutherite hate mongers?

And when we object, and point out the myriad legitimate reasons to lose faith in the LDS church, you accuse us of not leaving well enough alone. It's ancient history, why stir it up? You're only trying to embarrass Mormons, you say. You are trying to spread your hatred of Mormons. You're going to inspire acts of violence, blood will be on your hands.

Then when some exmormons, either due to personality or, as you say, saying enough is enough get personal and nasty, we're evil incarnate.

Oh, and by the way, for those of you shocked that Ray called me a b****, you obviously have not read the thread in question (shout out to renegade). That is just one of many vulgarities and personal attacks Ray has launched at me and others. His behavior has gone beyond anything I have ever previously witnessed, on any board. His behavior is irrational and frightening.

Thank god I don't use my real name on the internet. Ray is exactly the type of person I would NOT want knowing that information.

How much space and time will you spend attacking Mormonism? Once again, you come across as very bitter. With every post you do, you show, as I previously point out, your TRUE colours:

Knowing that the believers we still love have often swallowed this baloney from their leaders, who are, after all, speaking for Jesus Christ, is maddening, particularly when it directly begins to infect those relationships. I was a lucky one. Many are not.

Baloney? Maddening? You're a smooth talker filled with bitterness. It "maddens" you? What is that, if not a form hate? Your language belies your true motives.

So you were "lucky" to wake up to the Delusion, and your mission now is to save others from the Delusion.

So you're worried I might do harm to you? I thought you were the one talking about "cyber" anger recently, and how it's prevalent on the net but relatively harmless. So you're worried I might do you harm because I called you a B****, but you think my suggestion that harm could come to Mormons ridiculous when they are called far worse things?

Your logic is now about as good as Scratch's.

[_beastie]

I made quite clear in my post to what I referred as baloney: the teachings that apostates lose faith not due to legitimate reasons, but due to their own flawed characters.

I have never hidden that I find that teaching noxious baloney.

So you're worried I might do harm to you? I thought you were the one talking about "cyber" anger recently, and how it's prevalent on the net but relatively harmless. So you're worried I might do you harm because I called you a B****, but you think my suggestion that harm could come to Mormons ridiculous when they are called far worse things?

Good grief, Ray, I don't want any person who admits getting tanked on a regular basis and specifically links getting tanked with bad, even violent, behavior, and who has previously be rude and vulgar to me, personally, knowing my personal information. It could be just stalky behavior versus violent behavior. Whatever. I don't want you knowing where I live and what my name is. I'm not fearing some vague threat by someone inspired by your attacks - I think you sound unstable and don't want you, personally, knowing anything about me.

And what worse things are Mormons called than you have called me and other exmormons? Evil? Satanic? Liar? I bet you can't think of one single pejorative that exmormons have called Mormons that Mormons have not also used against exmormons... and in the name of Jesus Christ to boot!

[_Jersey Girl]

Ray

When Pahoran came here to defend himself, and his Church, you could say he became the very thing he hated. He is not known to be tolerant of slander of his religion, even if he dishes some out himself in return.

Excuse me, Pahoran came here to do no such thing! He didn't begin here by defending himself OR the church. He came here to trade barbs on behalf of Bill Hamblin and Daniel. You really are quite delusional. Your statement is clearly in error as was your statement about my leaving Kevin's board in protest of slanderous remarks against Daniel. Neither is true!

Jersey Girl

[_Ray A]

Good grief, Ray, I don't want any person who admits getting tanked on a regular basis and specifically links getting tanked with bad, even violent, behavior, and who has previously be rude and vulgar to me, personally, knowing my personal information. It could be just stalky behavior versus violent behavior. Whatever. I don't want you knowing where I live and what my name is. I'm not fearing some vague threat by someone inspired by your attacks - I think you sound unstable and don't want you, personally, knowing anything about me.

And what worse things are Mormons called than you have called me and other exmormons? Evil? Satanic? Liar? I bet you can't think of one single pejorative that exmormons have called Mormons that Mormons have not also used against exmormons... and in the name of Jesus Christ to boot!

First, I do not "get tanked". I was being flippant with Jersey Girl. Second, I am the one who has been speaking out against drunken violence for a while now. I encounter that every night in my job. Third, for your information, I have a 52 year clean record with the police - not ONE conviction ever recorded against me. I do confess to three speeding fines. I have only ever fought in self-defence, and once when defending one of my children.

In any case, I wouldn't want to know you! I have better things to do with my life. What you're doing here is building up a bogeyman, yet you must know now how DCP feels when he has been called far, far worse than what I called you. WHEN are you going to go on RFM and tell them, the offenders, that their behaviour is "irrational and frightening"?? You don't know what they are capable of any more than what you think I'm capable of. And this is why your hypocrisy is astounding.

[_beastie]

Here's the difference, Ray. I am uncomfortable with one person in particular - you. This thread should make it obvious why.

You, on the other hand, talk about some vague "they" who are capable of heaven knows what. And then tell others, who have not engaged in malicious behavior, that we also have 'blood on our hands'.

I am not surprised that you do not see the distinction.

by the way, you never did tell me: are you prepared to have my blood on your hands should some irrational person be inspired by your rants?

[_harmony]

Who started this? WE started this! We called people names, denigrated their spirituality and their churches, broke apart families, made promises we had no intention of keeping, defrauded the public, lied from the pulpit... you name it, it's in our history. We are now reaping what our ancestors sowed. The law of the harvest still holds true.

PS. Pahoran isn't a Mormon Terminator. Pahoran is a barking little dog, chasing cars and congratulating himself when they speed on by him.

"We"? Who is "we"? Does your bishop know what you write here? Does your husband?

We, as in LDS. We, as in our ancestors in the church. We, as in our prophets. We, as in our leaders.

And yes and yes. Why wouldn't they?

[_moksha]

Most of these attacks come from anonymous gutless cowards and backstabbers who claim they are "recovering from Mormonism".

Hey, where are all the donut jokes? Has anybody ever thought to compile a list of all the endearing or even neutral things that have been said about Dr. Peterson on all the forums outside of MAD? They make just as telling of point in a discussion as all the negatives things that are dwelt upon.

[_beastie]

Hey, where are all the donut jokes? Has anybody ever thought to compile a list of all the endearing or even neutral things that have been said about Dr. Peterson on all the forums outside of MAD? They make just as telling of point in a discussion as all the negatives things that are dwelt upon.

Yes, it would, and Scratch has attempted to do just that by pointing to the positive things he's said about DCP as well as criticisms. All that is irrelevant to Ray, and, in fact, he prefers a Benson type to someone who says positive things as well as negative.

Don't try to make it make sense. It doesn't.