Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

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malkie
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Re: Like a wave driven by the wind and tossed

Post by malkie »

Shulem wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:59 pm
The various models of Book of Mormon Geography which essentially melt down to Central America Vs. Heartlander are at serious odds with one another. They BOTH can't be true. Members who ascribe to either theory are setting themselves up in one camp while at the same time accuse the other camp of being wrong. It's one camp within the Church that is at opposition with the other. And it seems that not even the President of the Church can solve this dilemma! Or rather, the President of the Church doesn't want to attempt to solve the problem because he doesn't know how and lacks the wisdom in determining which of the theories are true. The President of the Church lacks the faith and knowhow to get an answer direct from God. He thinks he can just blow it off and tell members that the Church takes no position on the matter. The President of the Church shirks his duty, lacks faith, and thinks he can just sit on his ass without having to say anything unless God himself comes down off his cloud to tell him. This is the present state of affairs of the Church today being led by a man who claims to be a prophet.
The "reason" I've heard for the Church taking no position on the matter is that it is not vital to anyone's salvation.

However, I don't think that that is true: it may be a stumbling block for an investigator, or even for a faithful member, if the prophet of god cannot resolve a simple geographical question.

You have communicated your findings to the CAB, right, Shulem?
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Shulem
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Re: Like a wave driven by the wind and tossed

Post by Shulem »

malkie wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:29 pm
The "reason" I've heard for the Church taking no position on the matter is that it is not vital to anyone's salvation.

However, I don't think that that is true: it may be a stumbling block for an investigator, or even for a faithful member, if the prophet of god cannot resolve a simple geographical question.

You have communicated your findings to the CAB, right, Shulem?

That does seem to be the general excuse offered by members of the Church who are not willing to pressure the Church President in providing an answer. But it is causing division within the Church and members perceive their own geography models as being true as if they are the ones that have the Spirit and the other members do not. This is a problem. The Church President can only resolve this by declaring which model is true and let the chips fall where they will. Failure to do that will allow the Church to continue in its division and eventually develop into a hostile environment where opposing factions accuse others of misleading the members.

The Book of Mormon is the keystone of Mormonism and everything about the church hangs on the truthfulness and veracity that the claims therein hold up to basic scrutiny. Mormonism claims that belief in the Book of Mormon is essential towards salvation not just because it teaches about Jesus Christ but because Smith dug a gold book out of the Hill Cumorah and translated stories therein as such we read today. Are those stories true or not? Where is the narrow neck? Where is the land of Nephi? The Church teaches that Jesus is resurrected and in heaven where nobody can see him and they must abide in faith but the Hill Cumorah, land of Nephi, and the narrow neck are not in heaven but here on earth. Where are they if they really do exist? That is the question that Mormonism refuses to answer. Mormonism can't verify that which is in heaven let along that which is on earth and that speaks volumes.

The stories of the Book of Mormon are fiction. The Church is stuck trying to prove otherwise and can only do it by pretending to get warm and happy feelings from a spirit which is really nothing more than chemicals in the mind being influenced by a life that needs pleasure and reassurance in order to feel validated -- whether true or not.
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Re: Like a wave driven by the wind and tossed

Post by Shulem »

malkie wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:29 pm
You have communicated your findings to the CAB, right, Shulem?

They don't listen to apostates. It will take a war within the Church itself to get their attention. A Book of Mormon geography war is imminent.
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When it doesn't fit...

Post by Shulem »

The narrow neck is too small for Tehuantepec

Image



When north is not north and west is not west

Image
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Re: Like a wave driven by the wind and tossed

Post by Shulem »

malkie wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:29 pm
it may be a stumbling block for an investigator

The differences in understanding Book of Mormon geography is not entirely new but now that we are in the information age and with the Internet there is a real problem with the Church keeping the lid on the pot upon the back-burner. The pot is seething hot and steam is whistling out of the bouncing lid as the Internet broadcasts these things to all the world and everyone in the north, south, west, and east is going to learn that Book of Mormon directions make no sense when it comes to Mormon apologetic geography models. More especially, they can look at those models and compare them with the descriptions contained in the text of the book and see firsthand they do not match. The public will learn that the text of the Book of Mormon geography doesn't match the models presented by apologists anymore than the hieroglyphic texts of the Facsimiles doesn't match Smith's Explanations of that text. So you see, the geography of the Book of Mormon is a huge liability for the Church in the present Internet Age. If nonmembers can compare the Delmarva model and come to an understanding that Smith was painting a picture and creating a backdrop to match the basic outline of that model they will come to see that it was the very model in which Smith was using.

Millions will refuse to join the Church or listen to the Book of Mormon spooky Spirit solely on the basis that they cannot deny reason and convolute size and direction to try and fit something into something it can't possibly fit.

Also, thousands will leave the Church once they realize they have been lied to and that the Delmarva model is the model which serves to prove there is no archeological evidence to support the stories contained in the novel.
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Re: What about that south sea?

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AGAIN, apologists know the text of the Book of Mormon describes a peninsula and there is NOTHING in the Book of Mormon that justifies the introduction of an interconnecting land source that is south of Lehi's landing. The text of the Book of Mormon makes it clear that there is NOTHING south of that point other than "sea south" that rules all the geography south of the land of Nephi (Helaman 3:8).

In spite of careful geographical descriptions given in the authoritative text of the Book of Mormon, apologists have taken it upon themselves, giving themselves license to present the geography as if there is land south of Lehi's landing. They do this BECAUSE there is no peninsula anywhere on the map that will fit their preconceived ideas and expectations of what is required to justify Book of Mormon claims with regards to archeology.

Here is an example of the Book of Mormon peninsula wherein apologists refuse to allow Lehi's landing as the southernmost place and fail to recognize that "sea south" is all that exist south of the land of Nephi.

Apologist model wrote: Image
THE SEA SOUTH AND OCEAN BLUE IS HERE
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by Shulem »

JEREMY RUNNELLS wrote:If the Book of Mormon is historical and the geography, for example, is real, then it is not unreasonable for Mormon scholars to put together - based on the data - of a potential location of one single Book of Mormon land. It is not unreasonable to then publish for peer-review this data in a non-Mormon journal that is not BYU-controlled. It is not unreasonable to have other archaeologists, anthropologists and other experts to peer-review the data. This is the scientific process which was used to find the lost city of Troy. This is the same scientific process that can lead to the discovery of Zarahemla. Unfortunately for the Church and its apologists, decades of vigorous archaeological and anthropological research have yielded nothin

IF the leaders of the Church were confident that hilly terrain north of Tehuantepec contained the actual hills Cumorah & Shim in which the final battles were fought, it should be no problem for the Church to finance a multi-billion archeological expedition into Mexico. The Church can easily pull funds out of that secret account (which I myself unknowingly helped fund) and go down and dig up the evidence. Spread the money everywhere and offer handsome rewards for those who can find the evidence. Even if the Church has to spend 10 billion dollars doing it the rewards of finding the evidence and proving the Book of Mormon is true based on the dirt and the evidence found in that dirt -- the Church will make up that loss with future donations from those who remain faithful or are converted because of God's miracles in uncovering the truth.

Will the Church do that? No! Of course not. They can't afford the ultimate outcome in NOT finding that evidence and publicizing their failure and how the Book of Mormon is fiction, a novel.

The Book of Mormon will never be proven historical. It will never happen. Not now and not a hundred years from now -- not even a thousand. And in that time, the Mormon Christ will still have not returned. Not even two thousands years from now.
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by drumdude »

Nor do I expect we shall stop at Arizona, but I look forward to the time when the settlements of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints will extend right through to the City of Old Mexico, and from thence on through Central America to the land where the Nephites flourished in the Golden era of their history, and this great backbone of the American Continent be filled, north and south, with the cities and temples of the people of God. In this great work I anticipate the children of Nephi, of Laman and Lemuel will take no small part.

—Brigham Young to William C. Staines, 11 January 1876, Letterbook 14:124–26
https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2021 ... ctual.html
Brigham’s expectation could well be considered a prophecy: Church membership in Mexico has grown from just 2,314 in 1920 to 1,481,530 in 2020. In Mexico, there are thirteen operating temples, one under construction, and two more have been announced. The first convert in Guatemala wasn’t baptized until 1947; now there are 281,465 members there, plus two operating temples, one under construction, and one more announced. Truly “this great backbone of the American Continent” has been “filled, north and south, with the cities and temples of the people of God,” and the descendants of Lehi in those countries have taken “no small part” in that growth.

Yet, Heartlanders would have us believe that the Nephites flourished in their Golden era across the Mississippi River from Nauvoo. Jonathan Neville wrote an entire book about this, and his flagship website that bears the same name is subtitled “The North American Setting for the Book of Mormon.” But the Heartlanders’ evidence for Nephites in the Midwest rests almost entirely with forged and unprovenanced artifacts, the Hopewell people that Heartlanders claim were the Nephites “left no written language or recorded histories,” and no complex ancient civilizations or structures have been discovered there. All the Heartlanders have so far is a few fire pits where clams—a food forbidden by the law of Moses—were cooked.

Meanwhile, the list of prophets and Church leaders who believe that the Book of Mormon took place in Mesoamerica grows longer.


Apologists really hate the heartland model. I think they hate proponents of the heartland theory more than atheists and anti-Mormons!
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by Shulem »

drumdude wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:23 am
Apologists really hate the heartland model. I think they hate proponents of the heartland theory more than atheists and anti-Mormons!

The disdain between both camps is not going away and will continue to simmer and fester as they stand behind their various models and push their agendas on the Internet and elsewhere. Both models are fairytales and the poor Hill Cumorah is the real victim because the one in New York has no archeological evidence and the one to the south has not been shown to exist. So you see, it all comes down to Cumorah. The Mesoamerican model depends on old buildings built by natives who inhabited the land but the direction, size, and proportion described in the Book of Mormon is anything but that land and Cumorah remains a mystery and is forever lost, just like the golden plates.

I've thought about taking (redoing) this thread and the Jaredite thread (hardly anyone cared) up to Celestial and recreating a new thread. Seems interest down here is minimal and up there I can get lost in my thoughts and type away. I don't know. I prefer the Celestial Forum and have all but given up on the Terrestrial. Joseph Smith has become my new friend and I think I know him a lot better now that I have crossed certain barriers.
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by huckelberry »

Shulem, I am fairly certain that believers think that the prophet can only reveal what God wants to reveal to the prophet. No location of Book of Mormon revealed now? That must be the way God wants it. Different theories, why people will just have to live with each other. Why even I as a nonbeliever can see some value in that.

But Shulem your explanation should be of real interest to those of us with some curiosity of how this tale was composed. Nothing has come up so far to cast doubt on what you see. What you see does make a distinct suggestion that the book is composed fictional adventure.(supporting numerous edifying religious expositions)
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