Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:41 pm
Shulem:

I just looked at this and have to agree with Doc and Philo. This has potential. Now, hopefull there is some link to the geography and Joseph Smith's understanding. Perhaps there was a part of the mound builder myth that took place around Delaware? Do you know if Joseph Smith ever traveled there or any of his family? Hyrum trained at Dartmouth for a time and their Uncle was a professor there. Is there something that Hyrum may have learned that perhaps he related to Joseph Smith about that part of the US? Did Emma's family come from there? Or maybe Joseph Smith was just looking at maps from the local library and his imagination went from there? Anyway, the geography seems to fit and you should continue to pursue it and publish it in one of the various journals out there dealing with Mormonism (Dialogue, Sunstone, etc.)
And it came to pass, in the two thousand and twenty second year of the Christian era, in the first month of the year, and on the twenty third day of the month, Being on the Sabbath day, (which, as it is written in the scriptures, Thou shalt remember and keep HOLY,) That the mighty Shulem, historian of the charlatan Joseph Smith, who himself had plagiarized mightily from the the book known colloquially as The Late War, opened eyes that were closed, caused unto our minds to see now the con laid bare, that Joseph Smith used the Late War’s setting and parlance as the basis of his deception, and verily Shulem brought unto our understanding that geographic place names were twisted from their Great Lakes and western New York settings, changed to give unto them a new appearance, and set upon the Late War’s geographic region and storyline so that Joseph Smith could write unto himself a book, that he would then endeavor to sell the copyright thereof to an interested publisher.

———

Seriously though, I was ecstatic last night. The whole con, the means of it, the plagiarism, the narrative, all of it came into sharp focus last night. At last Joseph Smith’s arc was complete, and everything has come into sharp relief. This is one of the most remarkable ‘solvings’ of the Mormon enigma I’ve witnessed, and Shulem did it right here on this board. Absolutely amazing work so far.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by Philo Sofee »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:28 pm
Dr Exiled wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:41 pm
Shulem:

I just looked at this and have to agree with Doc and Philo. This has potential. Now, hopefull there is some link to the geography and Joseph Smith's understanding. Perhaps there was a part of the mound builder myth that took place around Delaware? Do you know if Joseph Smith ever traveled there or any of his family? Hyrum trained at Dartmouth for a time and their Uncle was a professor there. Is there something that Hyrum may have learned that perhaps he related to Joseph Smith about that part of the US? Did Emma's family come from there? Or maybe Joseph Smith was just looking at maps from the local library and his imagination went from there? Anyway, the geography seems to fit and you should continue to pursue it and publish it in one of the various journals out there dealing with Mormonism (Dialogue, Sunstone, etc.)
And it came to pass, in the two thousand and twenty second year of the Christian era, in the first month of the year, and on the twenty third day of the month, Being on the Sabbath day, (which, as it is written in the scriptures, Thou shalt remember and keep HOLY,) That the mighty Shulem, historian of the charlatan Joseph Smith, who himself had plagiarized mightily from the the book known colloquially as The Late War, opened eyes that were closed, caused unto our minds to see now the con laid bare, that Joseph Smith used the Late War’s setting and parlance as the basis of his deception, and verily Shulem brought unto our understanding that geographic place names were twisted from their Great Lakes and western New York settings, changed to give unto them a new appearance, and set upon the Late War’s geographic region and storyline so that Joseph Smith could write unto himself a book, that he would then endeavor to sell the copyright thereof to an interested publisher.

———

Seriously though, I was ecstatic last night. The whole con, the means of it, the plagiarism, the narrative, all of it came into sharp focus last night. At last Joseph Smith’s arc was complete, and everything has come into sharp relief. This is one of the most remarkable ‘solvings’ of the Mormon enigma I’ve witnessed, and Shulem did it right here on this board. Absolutely amazing work so far.

- Doc
Couldn't have said it better myself, but I am going to repeat it in other areas and by other ways and means as well as this message board...
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Sound the Alarm!

Post by Shulem »

Simon Southerton implied earlier, the cat is out of the bag. Indeed, the torch has been lit and Philo can feel the fire. Let the voice of gladness sound loud and long upon the housetop! Let it sound in every ear! Let the apologists shake and tremble when they realize their models were vain and are now a thing of naught. Oh the horror when they realize they were all wrong!

I'm very humbled that my friends here at Discuss Mormonism have paid ear and are seeing the light. Book of Mormon geography is now entering a new phase on the world stage. Things will never be the same again. A shift is taking place. We are witnessing it first hand and there will be a great stir.

It's exciting!

I have other things to share all in good time. ;)

I hope that readers will make sure they read the thread referenced below because it demonstrates how Smith was always borrowing things from other sources to prop up his own story. He did things on the sly. That's how he was. But now YOU know.

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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:11 pm
I am going to bring up your view on Book of Mormon Geography and discuss it a bit on my Backyard Professor Live tonight Shulem.

Please provide the link so interested readers can attend.

Thanks!
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:57 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:11 pm
I am going to bring up your view on Book of Mormon Geography and discuss it a bit on my Backyard Professor Live tonight Shulem.
It will be on Mormon Discussions Inc. I don't have an actual channel produced yet, I did my first live last week just to see if anyone came along. Several did, so I am doing it again. Google Mormon Discussions Inc., it's the Bill Reel, Radio Free Mormon site, you are very familiar with it already. Thanks man.
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by Physics Guy »

I don't think there's ever going to be a one true answer for exactly where in the Americas Smith meant the Book of Mormon lands to have been. I think there is no real answer, because I don't think Smith meant to give enough detail to pin down any one location unambiguously. I think instead he must have been consciously avoiding any exact correspondence with anywhere. He wouldn't have wanted to paint himself into a corner about the location of, say, Zarahemla, for fear that locals in the area would know too much for him to get away it. Even if at first he was only writing a novel, I think he would have kept it a big vague like that, just to avoid spoiling the "found novel" frame. So in that sense I think the real answer to, "Where did Smith have in mind?" has got to be, "Nowhere in particular."

I think he probably did have at least one place in mind as a rough model, though. Whether you're a con artist or a novelist, you want any odd geographical features in your story—like the "narrow neck"—to be realistic. The easiest way to be sure you're being realistic is to copy something real. I just think Smith would have made a point of not copying his model so precisely as to single it out.

For what it's worth I've always inclined to guess the Niagara peninsula as that model, just because it seems closer to Smith'a home turf. On the other hand I can also imagine Smith thinking of Central America as this narrow neck of land between North and South America, and just never being serious enough to make anything accurate beyond that.

The big thing that the Delmarva peninsula obviously has going for it, compared to Niagara, is that it's on the ocean. So a story about immigrants from Palestine doesn't have to go, "Yada yada yada, they all ended up several hundred miles inland." It can just let them hit the beach and get to work. Compared to all of Central America, on the other hand, Delmarva is a lot smaller and more isolated. A peninsula that close to being an island is the sort of natural stage that can inspire an author.

But I can't really rule out that Smith might have vaguely used multiple locations as models, alternately or even simultaneously. He might have started out with the idea that his Lehites were landing smack in the middle of Central America, but then as he got more familiar with his characters he slipped into thinking about a smaller-scale setting closer to home, in kind of the way science fiction films are supposed to be set in the vastness of space but a lot of the action still takes place in small rooms.

What would make me take Delmarva more seriously as a major source for Smith would be if it could be shown that he knew the area well. If for example he had hiked across its "narrow neck" as a kid, pretending to be Cortes marching to the Pacific, then I'd buy it that he might have used that place as a model in a more specific way.
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by Shulem »

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 pm
I don't think there's ever going to be a one true answer for exactly where in the Americas Smith meant the Book of Mormon lands to have been.

The term AmericaS is a modern apologetic construct. The Book of Mormon narrative repeatedly describes how Lehi and the Jaredites inherited the Promised LanD which Smith confidently confirmed within the narrative as America (in the singular term), the future USA.

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 pm
I think there is no real answer, because I don't think Smith meant to give enough detail to pin down any one location unambiguously.

Smith never did pin down an answer to that specific point. Nobody is on record for asking him to do so.

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 pm
I think instead he must have been consciously avoiding any exact correspondence with anywhere.

That's right. The text in the Book of Mormon does not match ancient definitions with modern terms or names.

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 pm
He wouldn't have wanted to paint himself into a corner about the location of, say, Zarahemla, for fear that locals in the area would know too much for him to get away it. Even if at first he was only writing a novel, I think he would have kept it a big vague like that, just to avoid spoiling the "found novel" frame. So in that sense I think the real answer to, "Where did Smith have in mind?" has got to be, "Nowhere in particular."

Yep, he kept it rather mysterious and couched it in mystery. I grant him that! But key elements provided in the narrative allow us to pinpoint where he was looking on the map. Maps were absolutely vital in those times. They absolutely depended on maps to travel. It's nothing like it is today.

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 pm
I think he probably did have at least one place in mind as a rough model, though. Whether you're a con artist or a novelist, you want any odd geographical features in your story—like the "narrow neck"—to be realistic. The easiest way to be sure you're being realistic is to copy something real. I just think Smith would have made a point of not copying his model so precisely as to single it out.

But Delmarva fits perfectly in size and orientation. It fits like a glove. Those who believe the Book of Mormon is historical must be able to locate the narrow neck and make it work with the narrative. Those who don't believe the Book of Mormon is historical only need look at the map to find that narrow neck and make it work and if they can't then nothing has changed because it's still NOT historical. Either way, for the nonbeliever, it's nothing more than fiction.

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 pm
For what it's worth I've always inclined to guess the Niagara peninsula as that model, just because it seems closer to Smith'a home turf. On the other hand I can also imagine Smith thinking of Central America as this narrow neck of land between North and South America, and just never being serious enough to make anything accurate beyond that.

The salty ocean doesn't correspond with the Great Lakes or a narrow neck on fresh waters. It doesn't work. AND, I've not even discussed the point of "whirlwinds" that swept peoples off the lands. That is a coastal affair! Hurricanes.

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 pm
The big thing that the Delmarva peninsula obviously has going for it, compared to Niagara, is that it's on the ocean. So a story about immigrants from Palestine doesn't have to go, "Yada yada yada, they all ended up several hundred miles inland." It can just let them hit the beach and get to work. Compared to all of Central America, on the other hand, Delmarva is a lot smaller and more isolated. A peninsula that close to being an island is the sort of natural stage that can inspire an author.

Yep, exactly. That's how I see it.

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 pm
But I can't really rule out that Smith might have vaguely used multiple locations as models, alternately or even simultaneously. He might have started out with the idea that his Lehites were landing smack in the middle of Central America, but then as he got more familiar with his characters he slipped into thinking about a smaller-scale setting closer to home, in kind of the way science fiction films are supposed to be set in the vastness of space but a lot of the action still takes place in small rooms.

The narrative of the Book of Mormon is well planned. It reads as though he had already mapped out the basics and then he executed the story when he dictated to Oliver. I've read the Book of Mormon many times and very carefully. Smith was exact in what he did and followed a timeline and geographical setting that was consistent throughout the story. It goes from point A to point B and on to C. Then D and E. It's all very organized just as is the chronology and dating.

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:08 pm
What would make me take Delmarva more seriously as a major source for Smith would be if it could be shown that he knew the area well. If for example he had hiked across its "narrow neck" as a kid, pretending to be Cortes marching to the Pacific, then I'd buy it that he might have used that place as a model in a more specific way.

Smith had never been to Delmarva. He began writing the Book of Mormon at age 22. He was young and inexperienced. He was creative and imaginative. He was also very bright and meticulous in everything he did.
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:01 pm
It will be on Mormon Discussions Inc. I don't have an actual channel produced yet, I did my first live last week just to see if anyone came along. Several did, so I am doing it again. Google Mormon Discussions Inc., it's the Bill Reel, Radio Free Mormon site, you are very familiar with it already. Thanks man.

So, what time did you say that would be "tonight"?

:lol:
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by Physics Guy »

I certainly don't know the Book of Mormon well enough to notice a lot of details all lining up, so my judgement on this point is just vague and general. I'll let people who know the material better settle it.

The point about whirlwinds makes me wonder, though. Does the Book of Mormon really use that word? If so, what did people in Smith's time understand by the term? Whirlwinds are mentioned in the Old Testament, but I think they must have been referring to what we would call dust devils, not tornadoes. Or do tornadoes ever happen in the Middle East?

I really wonder about hurricanes. We know them now as the biggest of all whirlwinds. We see those swirling clouds viewed from space. But did anyone in Smith's time recognize that the most ferocious Atlantic storms were actually whirling? Hurricane rotation is over dozens of miles. You can't really see it, except perhaps if you're right in the eye, and even then I'm not sure everyone would realize that the stadium-like cloud wall was rotating around them.

But perhaps when the Book of Mormon refers to "whirlwinds" it really only means "strong winds".
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Re: Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

Post by huckelberry »

Shulem, back a couple of pages Malkie noted he though you meant Zarahemla was in Maryland west of this Delmar peninsula. You corrected indicating you meant the middle of the peninsula. When reading your thread I had the same understanding as Malkie. I am no close student of the Book of Mormon and have no interest in trying to map out the movements myself. I have some vague recollection that some apologist have proposed that the book presents a clear and consistent set of geographic relationships. I am wondering if the matter of location of Zarahemla is ambiguous in the Book of Mormon , just enough to open alternative readings. I can see physic guys point about not being too exact but at the same time an ongoing reference to a map would be very helpful for not getting the story too tangled.

A person might consider that the book has a lot of group shuffling around. Perhaps an amount fitting an author who likes a map more than fitting real people unusually footloose.
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