A question for "Light in the Darkness"

[_Polygamy Porter]

Do you feel that their experience is not valid because it did not lead them to the same place as yours?

The question you should be asking (Thank you Brother Millet) is "Is God a God of order, or a God of confusion?"

Should a person expect God to give various answers to people regarding what is true in regards to him? Is it possible for God to be both a multiarmed Hindu God and the Nordic one eyed deity of the Vikings? No.

Go dmakes himself known through his servants. All of the prophets have testified of Adam, who was made in the exact image of God. Adam was instructed by angels from heaven in how to reconsile the fallen with their Father in heaven, and if we are obedient to these things we may re-enter his presence. Notice I said re-enter, religion means to bind back to.

It is perfectly acceptable to judge one prophet by the words of another. There is a continuous and supportive testimony made available in the writings of a long line of prophets, all testifying of Jesus Christ and the work he either would do or did do. All also speak of the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost.

Joseph Smith merely added his testimony to those that came before. His testimony strengthens theirs, and makes clear what they meant.

Stop kicking against the truth Porter. You only make yourself look like a fool.

So answer my question you apologist wannabee

Do you feel that their experience is not valid because it did not lead them to the same place as yours?

[_Gazelam]

Do you feel that their experience is not valid because it did not lead them to the same place as yours?

Obviously no.

[_Polygamy Porter]

Do you feel that their experience is not valid because it did not lead them to the same place as yours?

Obviously no.

Then what was that powerful feeling that they experienced? Satan?

Why are more non Mormons experiencing invalid spiritual experiences than Mormons?

[_A Light in the Darkness]

I just read your response closely. I have a follow-up question:

Through what means did the Holy Ghost let you know (or whatever word you would use) that Mormonism was all it claimed to be?[/size][/color]

What has this got to do with the topic at hand? If you want to set up an inquisition about the rational foundation of my beliefs, please spare me the flimsy pretexts. It just makes you look like someone who is very clumsy at baiting people. Being charitable, you misinterpreted what I wrote in another thread. Being uncharitable, and perhaps more realistic, you misrepresented it in order to shoehorn it into a discussion on the nature of spiritual knowing.

[_Gazelam]

Then what was that powerful feeling that they experienced? Satan?

Why are more non Mormons experiencing invalid spiritual experiences than Mormons?

The Holy Ghost is something that has to be grown into. An 8 year old child is pure and innocent, and the Holy Ghost is a revelator. When a child is baptised and filled with the Holy Ghost, who teachs all things, does that child instantly know all things? No. But they do know at that point what the Holy Ghost feels like, and can then go through this world with a foundation of knowledge regardign God and their place in his kingdom.

To use an extreme example, does a quaker who throws their body on the floor and convulses have the spirit? No they do not, thought they claim that the spirit has overcome them. The Holy Ghost exalts and builds and adds to, it does not degrade or cause an uproar. It teachs the peaceable things of the kingdom. knowledge is given along with the comfort and reassurance concernign the things of God, and it builds and adds to.

Is the Holy Ghost going to testify against the Plan of Salvation? Is the Holy Ghost going to testify of a closed Canon of scripture? Is the Holy Ghost going to testify that a person does not need to be baptised? No, No and No.

didn't you serve a mission Porter? Or did you jump ship before then? What do you remember about the Holy Ghost?

[_Blixa]

To use an extreme example, does a quaker who throws their body on the floor and convulses have the spirit? No they do not, thought they claim that the spirit has overcome them.

Perhaps you mean "Shaker," Gaz. Quaker gatherings are rather sedate and often silent.

[_guy sajer]

The Holy Ghost is something that has to be grown into. An 8 year old child is pure and innocent, and the Holy Ghost is a revelator. When a child is baptised and filled with the Holy Ghost, who teachs all things, does that child instantly know all things? No. But they do know at that point what the Holy Ghost feels like, and can then go through this world with a foundation of knowledge regardign God and their place in his kingdom.

To use an extreme example, does a quaker who throws their body on the floor and convulses have the spirit? No they do not, thought they claim that the spirit has overcome them. The Holy Ghost exalts and builds and adds to, it does not degrade or cause an uproar. It teachs the peaceable things of the kingdom. knowledge is given along with the comfort and reassurance concernign the things of God, and it builds and adds to.

Is the Holy Ghost going to testify against the Plan of Salvation? Is the Holy Ghost going to testify of a closed Canon of scripture? Is the Holy Ghost going to testify that a person does not need to be baptised? No, No and No.

didn't you serve a mission Porter? Or did you jump ship before then? What do you remember about the Holy Ghost?

And didn't you read the Bible, Gazelem? A notable exception to your description of the Holy Ghost is the Day of Pentecost in the New Testament, in which case the HG operated in quite a different fashion than you describe.

Why is your version of the how the HG works better or more appropriate than that of, say, the Apostolic Church?

[_Gazelam]

To use an extreme example, does a quaker who throws their body on the floor and convulses have the spirit? No they do not, thought they claim that the spirit has overcome them.

Perhaps you mean "Shaker," Gaz. Quaker gatherings are rather sedate and often silent.

Thank you Blixa, you are correct, that is what I meant.

[_Gazelam]

And didn't you read the Bible, Gazelem? A notable exception to your description of the Holy Ghost is the Day of Pentecost in the New Testament, in which case the HG operated in quite a different fashion than you describe.

Why is your version of the how the HG works better or more appropriate than that of, say, the Apostolic Church?

During his mortal ministry our Lord gave his disciples the gift of the Holy Ghost, which is the right to the constant companionship of that member of the Godhead based on faithfulness. (John 20:22) But as long as Jesus was with them, the actual enjoyment of the gift was withheld. (John 7:39; 14:26; 15:26-27; 16:7-15; Acts 1:8) Fulfillment of the promise came on the day of Pentecost; with miraculous majesty attending, the gift of tongues and of interpretation was poured out upon a great multitude and many conversions were made. (Acts 2:1-17)

A false gift of the spirit would be someone speaking in tongues with no interpretation. That is a false spirit. One of the things Joseph Smith had to deal with was a large number of false spirits in the early days of the church, including an account of a floating red ball going through the streets of the city, with members chasing after it. (Not sure of the exact source of that, but it was in the history of the church)

Apostolic groups are very splintered, having no central core of belief. One example of what I think you are asking about is this:

One of the defining marks in some Pentecostal groups is emotionalism in worship and prayer. They are known for raising their hands while singing and praying. They tend to be very vocal and expressive in their prayers, with cries of "Yes, Lord!," "Thank you, Jesus!", "Hallelujah!" and other spontaneous expressions of praise. There are other more conservative branches of Pentecostal groups, where the worship is enthusiastic, but not as emotional.

What you observe here is irreverence. Irreverence is not a sign of the Holy Ghost. A true outpouring of the spirit is orderly and with each individual taking turns in bearing testimony and sdharing in their revelations and gifts of the spirit. A study of the dedication of the Kirtland temple, with its accompanying outpouring of the Spirit will show this.

That a portion of the spirit is given to all mankind is not questioned, to lead and guide them or rather to offer a concience to every man.

"There is a great difference between the possession of the Holy Ghost and the mere possession of the Spirit of God. Everybody has the Spirit of God, that is, the honest hearted, those who are living according to the best light they have...

When the gospel reached us in the different nations whence we came, the Spirit of the Lord gave us convictions of its truth, and, in the honesty of our hearts, we received it and its blesings, otherwise we would have stayed at our several homes. It was promised to us by the several elders who proclaimed the gospel unto us, that if we would do the will of God, if we would obey the gospel, we should receive the Holy Ghost...

I say that any man who will humble himself before God and will be imersed in water, after repentance, for the remission of his sins shall receive, through the laying on of hands, the gift of the Holy Ghost. Can I give this to him? No.... I simply lay my hands upon him for the reception of the Holy Ghost, then God, from his presence, acknowledges my authority, acknowledges that I am his messenger, and confers the Holy Ghost upon the individual." - Lorenzo Snow, John Dehlin 14:304; 305; 307, January 14, 1872

The Holy Gost comes in no other way than by the laying on of hands by one who holds authority, and he will testify and revelate to man all that past prophets have testified of. This includes a testimony of "That Prophet" that the ancients awaited who would restore all things.

[_why me]

What has this got to do with the topic at hand? If you want to set up an inquisition about the rational foundation of my beliefs, please spare me the flimsy pretexts. It just makes you look like someone who is very clumsy at baiting people. Being charitable, you misinterpreted what I wrote in another thread. Being uncharitable, and perhaps more realistic, you misrepresented it in order to shoehorn it into a discussion on the nature of spiritual knowing.

Yes, perhaps Tal was baiting you just a little. But let us wait for his response. Tal seems to have a hatred for the lds church at the momemt. It will be interesting to see just why he wanted to know what he wanted to know.

The idea of the holy ghost testifying to the truth seems laughable to most exmos. For it to be otherwise would be dangerous for their mental health. A exmo must be like PP in this regard. The holy ghost must be limited to a warm fuzzy or some delusional experience that can also be achieved at a ciricus. Such is life as an exmo or as apostmo.