http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJSrQ7uAQIg
Nice quotes at 1:20 and 1:58.
Tal on Youtube
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_Polygamy Porter
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_Tal Bachman
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_Ray A
Tal Bachman wrote:Ray - STOP with the gay stuff, okay? We had enough on the DCP thread. It's embarrassing. Is that what you do, scan the internet checking guys out?
Shameful.
By the way, Tali-Bachman, don't you think your suicide comment on PBS was utterly shameful? Why did you want all Americans to think that every Mormon was as mentally screwed up as you are?
First, you'd commit suicide for the Church. Now, you're just the same bigoted zealot dressed up in anti-Mormon clothing and going on crusades.
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_Jason Bourne
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_Mr. Coffee
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_Polygamy Porter
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Really? In your opinion? Which sterile modern environment did you "serve" your two years? Did you go?Jason Bourne wrote:By the way, Tali-Bachman, don't you think your suicide comment on PBS was utterly shameful?
Gotta agree with Ray on this one Tal. It was over the top. If you really felt that way you really had issues.
From Tal's description of his environment and hearing his and other stories of how the mission presidents drove the missionaries down there, I can see that type of zeal in these young unwitting boys. Why not? They are told if they die while on a Mormon mission it is a one way ticket to the CK.
Old Testament, just curious, does your TBM wife know that you post on this exmo board? If yes, does she read your posts?
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_Inconceivable
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Ka boommm...
Tal,
I can Identify with your statement. The mission was a very intense time in my life.
The prez where I served would stand up each month and testify that if we were totally worthy, we could baptise 2 each month. He knew this to be true: "from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet". The average month for 180 missionaries was about 60 baptisms or so. We were driven by guilt. We were not allowed to fast for more than 24 hours each month except for "special occasions, although some went on crazy juice fasts for several days. In brainstorming for ways to become more worthy the prez and AP's would come up with these 100 hour prostlyting weeks to demonstrate to God (and to the visiting GA's) that we weren't just ? clowning around with the 80 required. Because I was a believer, I actually thought it was my fault (or the fault of my companions) that I only got credited for baptising 7 in 18 months. It gives me a sick feeling that I actually gave these men authority over all aspects of my life. Yet I returned home having served a full and "honorable" (all shortcomings forgiven) mission.
Ultimately, I hope I would not have blown myself up (obviously along with a deli full of mob apostates). However, every Mormon that takes out his endowment, covenants that they will "consecrate.. even their lives if necessary, for the building up of the kindom of God". But what is so difficult about that? I covenanted to "suffer my life to be taken (by disembowellement, cut throat etc) if I ever divulged" the secrets of the temple. Endowees after 1990 only have to feel guilt and not a slashing sword, I suppose. The church has never released us older generation from such barbaric consequence.
The leaders were my heros and they could do nothing wrong to lead me astray. For many years I truly believed that I would have gladly taken a bullet for Joseph Smith or any other prophet of the last dispensation. I truly believed the leaders would lead me into battle like Moroni rather than cut and run (like Joseph and Hyrum did before before being taunted as "cowards" before choosing plan B: Carthage). If it meant to win by "strategem" as it says in the Book of Mormon (decieving "evil" opponents) I would have been willing to lay it on the line. I imagine that the Mormons that slaughtered men, women and children at Mountain Meadows truly felt justified as well.
rant off.
I can Identify with your statement. The mission was a very intense time in my life.
The prez where I served would stand up each month and testify that if we were totally worthy, we could baptise 2 each month. He knew this to be true: "from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet". The average month for 180 missionaries was about 60 baptisms or so. We were driven by guilt. We were not allowed to fast for more than 24 hours each month except for "special occasions, although some went on crazy juice fasts for several days. In brainstorming for ways to become more worthy the prez and AP's would come up with these 100 hour prostlyting weeks to demonstrate to God (and to the visiting GA's) that we weren't just ? clowning around with the 80 required. Because I was a believer, I actually thought it was my fault (or the fault of my companions) that I only got credited for baptising 7 in 18 months. It gives me a sick feeling that I actually gave these men authority over all aspects of my life. Yet I returned home having served a full and "honorable" (all shortcomings forgiven) mission.
Ultimately, I hope I would not have blown myself up (obviously along with a deli full of mob apostates). However, every Mormon that takes out his endowment, covenants that they will "consecrate.. even their lives if necessary, for the building up of the kindom of God". But what is so difficult about that? I covenanted to "suffer my life to be taken (by disembowellement, cut throat etc) if I ever divulged" the secrets of the temple. Endowees after 1990 only have to feel guilt and not a slashing sword, I suppose. The church has never released us older generation from such barbaric consequence.
The leaders were my heros and they could do nothing wrong to lead me astray. For many years I truly believed that I would have gladly taken a bullet for Joseph Smith or any other prophet of the last dispensation. I truly believed the leaders would lead me into battle like Moroni rather than cut and run (like Joseph and Hyrum did before before being taunted as "cowards" before choosing plan B: Carthage). If it meant to win by "strategem" as it says in the Book of Mormon (decieving "evil" opponents) I would have been willing to lay it on the line. I imagine that the Mormons that slaughtered men, women and children at Mountain Meadows truly felt justified as well.
rant off.
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_Tal Bachman
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Hey Jason Bourne
The possibility that our respective mission presidents, and church devotion levels, and mission cultures, and mission environments, and mission messages, and mission rules, and MTC teachers, and a dozen other variables, might not have been identical, I guess has never occurred to you, right?
And I guess that that temple covenant about consecrating everything, including your life if needs be, to the church, has entirely escaped your memory, right?
And I guess Pres. Packer's teachings about never disobeying our priesthood file leaders you've never heard of, right?
And I guess all those MTC talks I and all the others there heard from Packer and Ballard and the like, insisting that we "always obey our mission presidents, as they had been called by direct revelation", you're also incapable of conceiving of, right?
And I guess all those heroic stories about those were killed for the gospel, and also, those who were willing to kill for the gospel, you never knew about either, right? (You can start with Abraham and go on from there...).
Very poor showing, amigo.
May I suggest that, as a rule of thumb, when Ray A starts making sense to you, you need to think things through again?
The possibility that our respective mission presidents, and church devotion levels, and mission cultures, and mission environments, and mission messages, and mission rules, and MTC teachers, and a dozen other variables, might not have been identical, I guess has never occurred to you, right?
And I guess that that temple covenant about consecrating everything, including your life if needs be, to the church, has entirely escaped your memory, right?
And I guess Pres. Packer's teachings about never disobeying our priesthood file leaders you've never heard of, right?
And I guess all those MTC talks I and all the others there heard from Packer and Ballard and the like, insisting that we "always obey our mission presidents, as they had been called by direct revelation", you're also incapable of conceiving of, right?
And I guess all those heroic stories about those were killed for the gospel, and also, those who were willing to kill for the gospel, you never knew about either, right? (You can start with Abraham and go on from there...).
Very poor showing, amigo.
May I suggest that, as a rule of thumb, when Ray A starts making sense to you, you need to think things through again?