Mormonism is Black and White, All or Nothing

[_KimberlyAnn]

I have no idea what you are talking about in terms of prophets. Polygamy was practiced by many members and not just Joseph Smith and BY if that it was you are referring to. Can you please give examples for your post? I see no difference in treatment. What would Jesus find disgusting about Mormonism? I see the new testament in Mormonism. I see the teachings of Paul in particular. When Jesus died, peter began to establish Christ's church. Christ's church returned to earth with Joseph Smith. Such is how the story goes.

I see no different standards between leaders and members. perhaps you are being too black and white on this issue. :=)

I will be away from a computer for a while. But I will respond later to any posts that may come my way.

Joseph Smith was guilty of lying, trickery (Kirtland banking scandal), adultery, breaking state and federal law, slander...and more. All of those things would likely render a member of the Mormon church unworthy of a temple recommend and would very probably earn them a "court of love". But Joseph Smith is excused by church members for his detestable deeds with the trite phrase, "he was acting as a man".

Christ's "church" most certainly did not return to the earth with Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith was a con artist and a liar who claimed to speak for God when he only spoke for himself. And here's something Jesus would find disgusing about the Mormon church: The Mormon church keeps families apart during marriages. There have been uncountable parents excluded from the weddings of their own children. That's heartbreaking and not at all Christ-like.

Mormons still believe the curse of Cain is black skin, and though Mormon God finally let blacks have the priesthood, he never removed their dark and loathsome skin. That belief is an affront to me, there's no doubt it would be an affront to Christ if he were alive today. Really, Why me, there's too many offensive things to list. You won't care what I offer, you'll disregard it and that's fine. But there are lots of reasons why the majority of mainline Christian denominations do not believe Mormons are Christian and do not accept their baptisms. And there's equally as many reasons why Mormonism is considered a wacky cult by so many people, the main reason being that it IS a wacky cult!

You have a detestable man as your avatar, Why me.

KA

[_Seven]

Why me,

I mean it, you can have him. He became insignificant to me when I discovered that he placed little value on his sacred marriage vows and to the laws of the land. This set a precedent and a wicked example for myself and those I love. This darkness was blindness to me.

Since I was young, I was taught that in order to internalize a righteous principle it was best to "liken it to myself". It has served me well all of these years and has given me a very strong desire to live a righteous life, particularly when it comes to personal honesty and integrity.

No doubt, you are familiar with all of the arguments and even the true history concerning Smith and yet you remain unaffected. I have been deeply affected and even devastated. I have felt a grave sense of betrayal of a sacred trust. It's a matter of moral principle that exhorts me to reject his claims of prophet, seer and revelator to a creator that would teach us love, peace, compassion, honesty, integrity and order vicariously through the children that love Him.

Well said.
Jospeh Smith engaged in behavior that most if not all LDS would condemn of another. Joseph not only gets a free pass, but becomes more of a likeable character for "WhyMe" and other TBMs because he is more human now! I thought we were striving to become more like Christ and detest the sort of character attributes exhibited by Joseph Smith. Why that man is given so much praise and honor by apologists when they know of his lies and adultery is disturbing.

[_beastie]

I lived in one of the crucial ERA states, and the church most definitely used its power and influence to defeat the amendment in my state. I remember one meeting (I can't remember if it was a homemaking meeting or an extra meeting) we sisters were all sat down at a table and given a little card with a script for us to copy over, sign, and send to our reps. They also organized bus trips to DC.

I refused to participate in either, because I never could fully accept the church's adamant opposition to the ERA. And boy, did I try to mentally toe that line. I read the entire booklet printed up by the church - was it by Packer? - describing all the horrible things that would happen if the ERA were to pass, and as much as I wanted to be convinced by it, I wasn't. I actually attended a NOW meeting held at BYU, but, still being a believing Mormon, couldn't tolerate their anti-church bias.

As far as the "black and white thinking", a.k.a., "fundamentalist" thinking of exmormons, this is an often debated topic. My belief, as a devout LDS, was that while the prophets weren't perfect and certainly could have their own opinions on matters, when they spoke to the church, over the pulpit, in the name of JC, in their function as prophet, then they had the spirit of revelation and would not lead the church astray.

This was the view of every LDS I knew in "real life". I didn't know about all the winks and nods until I met internet Mormons.

How can we guess what LDS church leaders want the rank and file to think on this matter? All we have to do is look at the church curriculum material to tell, and it is full of material urging members to follow the prophet, follow the prophet, to stay safe and secure. Internet Mormons not only scoffed at the idea that church leaders want members to follow the prophet, always, but insisted that "fundamentalist thinking" would lead to apostasy, and hence, was dangerous. So I asked them to provide at least ONE piece of evidence from church curriculum material that cautioned against this grave danger of fundamentalist thinking which leads silly exmormons to believe that when the prophet spoke across the pulpit, IN THE NAME OF JC, as the prophet, he was actually sharing inspired and reliable information.

They could not provide this sort of evidence from church curriculum, and instead, wanted to use other sources, like statements of individual past leaders that could be interpreted as encouraging members to NOT accept whatever the prophet says. They objected when I insisted it must be from church instructional materials. Why? As I stated, because that is the best way to ascertain exactly what leaders want members to believe on this matter.

http://p079.ezboard.com/fpacumenispages ... 1&stop=220

[_moksha]

Mormonism breeds black and white thinkers because it is indeed an all or nothing religion. Kimberly Ann

I think we Mormons are doing a great disservice to both our religion and our faith when we take a black and white attitude. It should be resisted and disavowed whenever possible. We need to be a church of compassion and understanding that can look to and address the grays of life, rather than compounding the harshness that comes with a black and white approach.

[_Inconceivable]

Mormonism breeds black and white thinkers because it is indeed an all or nothing religion. Kimberly Ann

I think we Mormons are doing a great disservice to both our religion and our faith when we take a black and white attitude. It should be resisted and disavowed whenever possible. We need to be a church of compassion and understanding that can look to and address the grays of life, rather than compounding the harshness that comes with a black and white approach.

But Moksha,

Each of us has to face the matter—either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing.

(I'm not sure, but did I just plagerize some old guy?)


I guess you remind me of that kid on the football team that runs the ball to the wrong goalpost admist the screams and horror of your teammates.

But that's cool, Moksha, I imagine you're wondering why I'm not trying to tackle you as you wiz past me. Run swiftly, the ones you really need to avoid are your own teamates.


:0'

[_aussieguy55]

"24 July, 1853 - Brigham Young preaches, "The Father came down in his bodily tabernacle and begot Jesus."

19 Feb, 1854 - Seventy's president Jedediah M. Grant preaches: Did the Prophet Joseph want every man's wife that he asked for? He did not...."

16 July, 1854 - First counselor Heber C. Kimball recommends decapitation for adulterers and preaches from the pulpit concerning "unclean" women: "we wipe them out of existence."

8 Oct, 1854 - In what Apostle Wilford Woodruff describes as "the greatest sermon that ever was delivered to the Latter Day Saints since they have been a people," Brigham Young announces from the pulpit: "I believe in Sisters marrying brothers, and brothers having their sisters for Wives. Why? because we cannot do otherwise. There are none others for me to and the opposite idea has resulted from the ignorant and foolish traditions of the nations of the earth." Young's secretary George D. Watt has already married his own half sister as a plural wife. Her letter to Young shows that he was initially "unfavorable" toward allowing them to marry, but this sermon reveals theological basis for Young's authorizing Watt's brother-sister marriage and the three children born of their union.

27 Apr, 1855 - Lieutenant in Colonel E. J. Steptoe's command in Salt Lake City writes to friend about his romance and near seduction of one of the wives of Brigham Young's son Joseph (who is on a mission): "Mary [Ayers] Young and I had to give up. Brigham sent me word that if I took her away he would have me killed before I could get out of the Territory. He is a man of his word and little matters of this sort are concluded, I had better not do it, although I went back to the city purposely to get her. We wrote each other affectionate notes."

27 Mar, 1857 - Brigham Young permits woman to select faithful elders to act as "proxy" to father children for her sexually impotent living husband. Young performs polyandrous ceremony "for time," and the relationship lasts for several years producing two sons, (1858, 1861). Mother's legal husband raises boys with her, and later tells them he loves them as much as if they were his natural sons. Both boys grow up to become devoted Mormons and polygamists. This is last known case of authorized polyandry."(They did not have an IVF program back then???)

Sex with other mens wives, taking Zina Huntington off her lawful husband ( who were his children sealed to?).