It is so easy to talk to non members about the church now

[_Yoda]

Or... the only way around it is to realize that G-d occasionally removes His hand from the anus of His ventriloquist puppets.

LOL! This is quote-worthy material! ;)

[_Who Knows]

[...]The only way around that is to realize that Brigham wasn't God's mouthpiece and he didn't speak for or with God. He was a man, trying his human best, but not in communication with diety and certainly not speaking for diety.

Or... the only way around it is to realize that G-d occasionally removes His hand from the anus of His ventriloquist puppets.

The problem is, 'god' and/or the 'puppet' don't tell the audience when (or if) the hand is removed from the anus (or whether it was ever in the anus).

It's a nice 'out'. If you don't like it - the hand wasn't in.

[_Some Schmo]

Why the hostility? I see Mormons as, in large part, good family folk, dedicated to their Mormon community, and spiritual in their own way. What is wrong with that?

You could probably say the exact same thing about the KKK:

Why the hostility? I see KKK as, in large part, good family folk, dedicated to their KKK community, and spiritual in their own way. What is wrong with that?

Oh, come on, Some Schmo. You know I love you, but this is a VERY over the top comparison.

The main focus of the KKK is to exterminate all non-white races. They are an extremely violent group which has been reigned in by US law.

Although it's true that the Mormons have had a shady past in certain instances, the focus of the Mormon Church is not blatantly violent. It is a religion....a way to worship Christ. Does it have crazy tenets? Yes, but so do most churches. And, I'm not speaking about cults here...I'm speaking about established mainstream Christian churches such as Catholics, Baptists, etc. If Mormonism is a cult, then all of the other mainstream churches are cults, too.

On the surface, the KKK's focus might seem blatantly violent, but to them, they're just looking out for themselves, honoring their beliefs and going about their business of "cleansing."

Of course it's all about perspective. That was the point of my post. Mormons have all kinds of justifications for the things they believe and do, and despite the harm they do to people as a result of their beliefs and resulting actions, they do it anyway... just like the KKK.

On this, we do agree: all churches have crazy (irrational, unsubstantiated, unreasonable, illogical) beliefs. That doesn't make any single one of them acceptable. If you're friend believes it's OK to jump off a bridge, are you gonna believe it too?

[_harmony]

[...]The only way around that is to realize that Brigham wasn't God's mouthpiece and he didn't speak for or with God. He was a man, trying his human best, but not in communication with diety and certainly not speaking for diety.

Or... the only way around it is to realize that G-d occasionally removes His hand from the anus of His ventriloquist puppets.

Which just goes to show how the teachings of men get mingled with God-breathed scripture. And how easy it is to determine which is which. That which raises us up is from God. That which beats us down is not.

[_Some Schmo]

The problem is, 'god' and/or the 'puppet' don't tell the audience when (or if) the hand is removed from the anus (or whether it was ever in the anus).

It's a nice 'out'. If you don't like it - the hand wasn't in.

I think SWK had a hand in his anus... and he liked it.

:D

[_harmony]

The problem is, 'god' and/or the 'puppet' don't tell the audience when (or if) the hand is removed from the anus (or whether it was ever in the anus).

It's a nice 'out'. If you don't like it - the hand wasn't in.

I think SWK had a hand in his anus... and he liked it.

:D

I saw him. No freakin' way. He wasn't that limber.

[_Some Schmo]

The problem is, 'god' and/or the 'puppet' don't tell the audience when (or if) the hand is removed from the anus (or whether it was ever in the anus).

It's a nice 'out'. If you don't like it - the hand wasn't in.

I think SWK had a hand in his anus... and he liked it.

:D

I saw him. No freakin' way. He wasn't that limber.

Maybe he was just having trouble walking that day.

hehe

[_Doctor Steuss]

[...]Which just goes to show how the teachings of men get mingled with God-breathed scripture.

The more I get into textual criticism, and the documentary hypothesis (and redaction), the more I realize this... sometimes I wish I were still in primary were all I needed to know was there was popcorn on trees and Jesus loved me.

And how easy it is to determine which is which. That which raises us up is from God. That which beats us down is not.

Groovy.

[_Yoda]

Of course it's all about perspective. That was the point of my post. Mormons have all kinds of justifications for the things they believe and do, and despite the harm they do to people as a result of their beliefs and resulting actions, they do it anyway... just like the KKK.

But what harm does the Church do today that is comparable to murder?

One thing I do agree with you on is that being an "all or nothing" Mormon is crazy. I couldn't do it.

When you talk to most people who are members of a particular Church, the majority of them utilize the "pick and choose" mentality because there are crazy tenets which exist in most religions.

I do find it interesting that Mormons tend to be more openly shunned for their lack of an "all or nothing" approach, even if this is what they practice privately.

(Maybe I'll post this in the "all or nothing" thread, too.)

by the way...it's fun debating with you, Some Schmo! :)

[_Doctor Steuss]

[...]One thing I do agree with you on is that being an "all or nothing" Mormon is crazy. I couldn't do it.
[...]

Moderation in all things... including religion.