Everybody's welcome?

[_Nightingale]

I have seen many calls for MADites/apologists to come on over and enter into discussions on this board. DCP finally shows up (about the time that hell freezes) and he gets this:

"Are you a liar? Was Nibley a liar? I believe so. When one takes excruciating measures to create revisionist history, betray others confidence and go out of ones way to defend the indefensible you then become a liar.

Maybe that's why no one in your field actually knows your name.

Tell me douchebag, do you believe that tapirs can be used as horses?"


The front page of this board says:

"Here is a place of free discussion. Whether you want to discuss the finer intricacies of doctrine, or whether you want to discuss the truthiness of the church in general, your word will be heard here.

Pro, anti, investigator, questioner, critic, apologetic, no matter what you call yourself, what you have to say, or what your agenda is, you have a place here. We pride ourselves on a minimalistic moderation policy, so that your voice is always heard."

If the majority really do want substantive discussion they could be sadly disappointed if "free discussion" equates to gross discourtesy. Board management says "you have a place here" [even if you're DCP] and yet you'd have to really really want to be here to wade on through when it's such hard slogging, as above.

One of the biggest obstacles to smooth running of these boards is that it's difficult to have a cohesive unit when there's no one playbook. Some people would be very interested in discussions on topics of mutual interest with knowledgeable people, whoever they are. Others don't even want to talk about Mormonism. The forum selection answers that to some extent but obviously not altogether.

I didn't consider that my reception on FAIR/MAD as a newbie poster was all that friendly. They can certainly say the same about this board. I know some people won't care about that but I thought the majority agenda was to attract new and diverse participants? I'm not saying to pull our punches in a fair debate but the knee jerk pot shots are unseemly even on a day when hell/ice happens (DCP shows up on MD). I thought that was what you wanted? Who could blame him for never coming back?

I know if this was MAD somebody would be yelling "board nanny" at me. I'm not trying to be that - it's just that I'm seeing a huge discrepancy between the stated goals and the posting reality. It's no way to grow a board. :/

[_Tommy]

Brother or Sister Nightingale. I would like to take this opportunity to extend a hearty welcome to both you and Dr. Daniel Peterson. We are indeed blessed to have both of you joining us here. It can be trying, I know, not everyone has always been friendly with me either. But we must understand that many of these souls are weighed down by sin and unrepentence. I only feel Godly sorrow for those who lash out in obsenity. I look at it this way, sometimes the bad words directed toward me do hurt, but I know the soul lashing out is hurting far more. So I try to be understanding with these struggling people.

Would you and Dr. Peterson like to join me in a hymn? perhaps it shall lift all our spirits!

How firm a foundation ye sayaaaints of the Lord!
Is laid for your faith in his excelle-ent word
What more can he say then to you he hath saaid.
to you that for refuge to Jesus have fled?

I feel a little better now. The hymns of God truly lighten my heart.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Thanks, Nightingale.

I don't plan to be around here much or for very long -- largely, but not entirely, because of that sort of nonsense.

But I appreciate the sentiments.

Best wishes,

DCP

[_moksha]

I think it is great that Dr. Peterson is posting here.

[_Chap]

If DCP confines himself to posting in the Celestial Forum, he should find his sensibilities unoutraged.

Freedom of speech cuts both ways. Down here in Terrestrial we have to put up with the repetitious and frankly abusive eructations of Coggins the Mormon Monster, and Ray A is sometimes a little ... shall we say abrupt ... but somehow we get through the day. If DCP (assuming it is really him, which I somewhat doubt) turns up here, he will have to be prepared to get the same sort of thing back.

[_christopher]

If the majority really do want substantive discussion they could be sadly disappointed if "free discussion" equates to gross discourtesy.

There probably aren't half a dozen people in all of Mormonism who would engender the responses that DCP would were he to post here (I don't know if it is really him or not). Six or so out of 12 million leaves a big and talented pool for a message board.

He has created this reaction himself with his prolific body of work, and tone and attitude over many years on the internet. Also, don't think that he doesn't get off of the attention. Like an ill mannered child, it doesn't matter whether the attention is positive or negative as long as it is given. I truly doubt he and a few others want free discussion. Like a bad high school teacher, he wants to lecture and pontificate to simply hear his own voice.

I don't believe he gets near the abuse of what he sets himself up for.

Chris <><

[_beastie]

I think what shades meant by "everyone's welcome" is that no one here is going to be banned, other than clear spammers. No one can guarantee anyone a warm reception (here or anywhere in the world, for that matter.)

This board is not like RfM in that RfM won't allow believers to defend the faith. This board isn't like MAD in that MAD engages in extraordinarily biased moderating, and bans critics frequently, often for no apparent reason. (ask Truth Dancer, Moksha, Jersey Girl, Runtu about that.)

There are some posters here who use very confrontational language on a regular basis. If people are uncomfortable with that, they ought to try the celestial forum.

Personally, I prefer a board that allows confrontational language in certain forums to one that engages in such biased moderating tactics that one "side" has to constantly walk on eggshells. (with the exception of a few very well known critics that MAD would look ridiculous banning)

Running/moderating a discussion board that has two contrary opinions about a sensitive topic is not easy. There is no perfect way to do it that will satisfy everyone. I think ZLMB got the closest possible in that it would not allow personal attacks and had strictly nonpartisan moderating, and obviously believers weren't happy with that.

It's an imperfect world, if we want to post on internet boards, we just have to deal with what we have available. I don't approve of some of the vulgarities and confrontational behavior some demonstrate here, but we're not going to change them, so I usually ignore it.

[_Chap]

It's an imperfect world, if we want to post on internet boards, we just have to deal with what we have available. I don't approve of some of the vulgarities and confrontational behavior some demonstrate here, but we're not going to change them, so I usually ignore it.

Amen to that. Those who feel in need of protection can post elsewhere.

[_Nightingale]

I appreciate all the comments. I see that "welcome" is not the best word for me to use. It doesn't really express what I meant and certainly I don't expect mods and posters to "walk on eggshells". Yes, board participants have to be tough. Let me retract and say that when it comes to the poster known as DCP (who at first I also thought was likely not the real deal - why would you post on a board you consider a "cesspool"?) I don't expect to see a warm hand of friendship extended and I'm sure he didn't either. Who am I, a Canadian far away from SLC, a short-term convert with no LDS family or friends, a person disappointed but not devastated by Mormonism, for whom walking away was the decisive end of the matter, who am I to tell anybody else how to think or feel or what to say when it comes to the person widely considered to be the Chief Apologist for the Mormon Church?

So I won't do that. And I'm sorry if that's how my post came across.

Let me throw out the word "welcome" and say instead "civil". Does that work? If you want Mormons to post here, which is an invitation I read often here, is it reasonable to expect them to take personal insults or do they seriously need to only post in the celestial forum to avoid that? Is that like going to MAD, which ostensibly invites non-LDS, and not knowing the unwritten rules about what type of "critic" to be?

I guess I'm just saying that, no matter anyone's personal feelings about DCP, his history of posting elsewhere, his run-ins with other posters here and there, one's personal interactions with him and the lightning he attracts in his role as mopologist extraordinaire, if you want him or other Mormons to post here, they likely won't if it means running a gauntlet of personal invective at every turn. Maybe it's obvious to them that they need to either stay away entirely or stick wholly to the celestial forum. Maybe I was too complacent in that I mainly stick in this forum and haven't seen it as too wild so far. Maybe it's not the place for substantive discussions with Mormons though. This is not the place, lol.

I'm disappointed to think that because "they do it to us" then "we should do it to them", although I can see why people would feel that way. As I said, I have never felt very welcome on MAD myself, although have not been involved in anything too ugly. I agree that there and elsewhere, Mormon posters/apologists can be appallingly rude and yes, people get hurt and unfairly caught in certain nets; unfortunately, especially vulnerable people, it seems. I guess another unwritten rule is that it's a dog-fight out there. Enter at your own peril.

So, to rephrase, I didn't expect DCP to be shown into the hospitality suite by MDers but I guess I did expect civil discourse. But hey, that's my bad. What can I say - I'm Canadian, eh?

[_Who Knows]

You're preaching to a couple of posters out of many. I agree with you, but you're always going to have outliers with this type of board.