Mormon Misogyny

[_KimberlyAnn]

KA, where do you live in the South? I saw you write something yesterday about rain and then going swimming. We did the same thing, waited all day for the rain to stop.

I think there are a couple of us that are living in the South. It would be cool to get a Southern MDB gathering! ;)

I'm in NC.

I'm in Middle TN. Oh yah! Let's do it!

I don't live in the deep South, like you and Liz. I live near Tulsa, Oklahoma. But I may still be able to make it to a Southern MDB gathering. That's what airplanes are for, right?

Oh, and I wrote a story about my first baby and posted it here several months ago. I've no idea how to link to it if I could even find it, but posting it got me several distasteful emails from a Mormon guy who was unbelievably rude.

Hopefully the rain will hold off for a while and we'll get to go swimming again today!

KA

[_sailgirl7]

KimberlyAnn

Men make covenants with God in the temple. The women make covenants to their husbands.

This is something I've always wondered about as well. It's confusing because we are taught that man will not be punished for Adam's transgressions- and yet women are punished for Eve's.

How was Joseph Smith using the word "punished"? This is how it was used in the 1828 Webster's dictionary:

PUN'ISHED, pp. Afflicted with pain or evil as the retribution of a crime or offense; chastised.

Moses 4: 22.

22 Unto the woman, I, the Lord God, said: I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception. In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

It appears to me that women are indeed punished for Eve's transgressions, aside from the pains of child birth which are just biological, the fact that in the temple now all women must covenent unto their husbands instead of directly unto the Lord- makes no sense to me. If I had a choice I would covenant unto the Lord.

Whenever I ask a man, like my husband, this question- they just tell me I don't understand and I shouldn't worry about it. This has been my experience whenever I have a question about the role of women in the church the responses are denial, repression and condemnation.

[_Yoda]

It appears to me that women are indeed punished for Eve's transgressions, aside from the pains of child birth which are just biological, the fact that in the temple now all women must covenent unto their husbands instead of directly unto the Lord- makes no sense to me. If I had a choice I would covenant unto the Lord.

Actually, this has been changed in the temple ceremony. Now, both the man and woman covenant to God.

[_sailgirl7]

It appears to me that women are indeed punished for Eve's transgressions, aside from the pains of child birth which are just biological, the fact that in the temple now all women must covenent unto their husbands instead of directly unto the Lord- makes no sense to me. If I had a choice I would covenant unto the Lord.

Actually, this has been changed in the temple ceremony. Now, both the man and woman covenant to God.

Oh- goes to show how long it's been for me- i was married in '99- so that's what I remember! Good to know it's changed though.

[_Yoda]

Here is a link to the website which sites the comparison of the differences in the temple scripts:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/compare2.shtml

[_Who Knows]

It appears to me that women are indeed punished for Eve's transgressions, aside from the pains of child birth which are just biological, the fact that in the temple now all women must covenent unto their husbands instead of directly unto the Lord- makes no sense to me. If I had a choice I would covenant unto the Lord.

Actually, this has been changed in the temple ceremony. Now, both the man and woman covenant to God.

Oh- goes to show how long it's been for me- I was married in '99- so that's what I remember! Good to know it's changed though.

Well, the women covenant to 'hearken unto the counsel of their husbands'.

[_sailgirl7]

Here is a link to the website which sites the comparison of the differences in the temple scripts:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/compare2.shtml

Liz-

Is this the most current version? In this one it still says that the woman is to hearken unto the counsel of her husband as he hearkens unto the counsel of the Father.

[_Yoda]

This is the exact quote for the NEW version:

ELOHIM: We will put each sister under covenant to obey the law of the Lord and to hearken to the counsel of her husband, as her husband hearkens unto the counsel of the Father. Sisters, arise.

This is how the OLD version read:

ELOHIM: We will put the sisters under covenant to obey the law of their husbands. Sisters, arise.

Although it's still misogynistic, the new wording is slightly more palatable than the old.

;)

[_truth dancer]

It is such nonsense!

Men harken to Christ but women harken to their husbands? What silliness!

So, women are not asked to harken to Christ? Are men not to harken to their wives?

The whole thing is ridiculous! (IMHO)! :-)

How about men and women harken to Christ and each other? Makes a lot more sense to me!

~dancer~

[_Yoda]

It is such nonsense!

Men harken to Christ but women harken to their husbands? What silliness!

So, women are not asked to harken to Christ? Are men not to harken to their wives?

The whole thing is ridiculous! (IMHO)! :-)

How about men and women harken to Christ and each other? Makes a lot more sense to me!

~dancer~

Actually, the way the covenant reads now is exactly how marriage is described in the Bible. The comparison utilized in the Bible is that the Church is like the woman....The Church is bound to Chrtist, and Christ is bound to the Father.

Is it sexist? Yes.

The cultural aspects of how Christianity is laid out is sexist.

But then again, who composed the canon? Men!