Let's play Mormon Mythbusters! Episode 1: Castrations

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

I could see some enterprising young apologist pointing out that these events are dubious because we do not have any journals from Thomas Lewis' progeny.

LOL! I think you're right, Moksha. What a clever man you are!

I found the following in an article by the Tanners. It's a quote from Wilford Woodruff's journal:

"I then went into the president office & spent the evening. Bishop Blackburn was present. The subject Came up of some persons leaving Provo who had Apostatized. Some thought that Bishop Blackburn & President Snow was to blame. Brother Joseph Young presented the thing to presidnt Young. But When the Circumstances were told Presidet Brigham Young sustained the Brethren who presided at Provo....
"The subjects of Eunuchs came up... Brigham Said the day would Come when thousands would be made Eunochs in order for them to be saved in the kingdom of God." (Wilford Woodruff's Diary, June 2, 1857, Vol. 5, pages 54-55)

I wonder what in the world caused Brigham Young to think a man could be "saved" by being made a eunuch? Maybe the same thing that made him think blood atonement saved people, I guess. I know there are active Mormons on this board, and you are one of them, if I remember correctly, Moksha, but I don't understand how anyone could think Brigham Young was a prophet of a supposedly loving God. I think Brigham Young was a disgusting, cruel despot and the furthest thing from a prophet. Who could take the side of Bishop Snow after the awful things he did? Only a hard, wicked man, in my opinion.

If anyone has any further information I'd appreciate it!

KA

Guess BY figured that polygamy would leave thousands of men single so castrating them would do them a favor to keep them pure and holy Mormons. Disgusting, indeed.

[_dartagnan]

One of the most annoying myths to me is the bullet-stopping garment.

I heard these stories before my baptism and even more so during and after my mission. It bothered me to a tremendous degree to see some return missionary bear his testimony with a face full of tears, while mentioning his companion who was allegedly shot but saved because he was a faithful Elder. You know, holes in the suit, but not the body.

[_Blixa]

Sorry for the long delay---root canal and other things.

I've read several references to the Snow/Lewis castration, but only in David Bigler's Forgotten Kingdom is there hint of an aftermath wherein justice is served.

I'm going to quote the entire story as told by Bigler.

"That same winter, Young Thomas Lewis from Manti was being escorted one night to the territorical prison at Great Salt Lake for alledged sexual misconduct. At Willow Creek, near Ephraim, he was seized by a party of men under 38-year-old Warren Snow, the bishop of Manti, who "took him into the willows," and castrated him "in a brutal manner Tearing the chords right out." They left the youth lying in the snow, bleeding and senseless on "a bitter cold night." He was found two days later, crazed and nearly dead.

Brigham Young's brother, Joseph, himself on the Mormon hierarchy, disapproved this act and told his younger sibling that "he would rather die than to be made a Eunuch." To this, Brigham Young replied the day was coming when thousands would be made eunuchs "in order for them to be saved in the kingdom of God." Moreover, he said, apparently referring to Snow, "when a man is trying to do right & do[es] some thing that is not exactly in order I feel to sustain him & we all should."

Young's tolerance for the misdeeds of loyal subordinates meant that justice would be delayed for the victim of the crime on willow Creeek, but some twenty-six years later, retribution apparently did come to the perpetrator. After several unsuccessful attempts by persons unknown to return Snow the favor he paid young Lewis, the following notice appeared on October 10, 1883, in The Salt Lake Tribune under the headline, "Retributive Justice": Bishop Warren Snow couldn't attend Conference by reason of sickness, which was brought on by a band of men, who served him as he served a young man several years hence. The Bishop is no longer a man. 'Vengeance is mine,' saith the Lord."

Bigler's source for the castration description is the diary of Samuel Pitchforth, for the Young brother's discussion, Wilford Woodriff's Journal, and the Salt Lake Tribune article tidbit was passed on to Bigler from Hal Schindler (god bless him!)

[_harmony]

It seems to me I remember a castration ordered by Brigham that was because the man and his mother were involved in a sexual relationship. Does anyone remember that one?

[_KimberlyAnn]

Sorry for the long delay---root canal and other things.

I've read several references to the Snow/Lewis castration, but only in David Bigler's Forgotten Kingdom is there hint of an aftermath wherein justice is served.

I'm going to quote the entire story as told by Bigler.

"That same winter, Young Thomas Lewis from Manti was being escorted one night to the territorical prison at Great Salt Lake for alledged sexual misconduct. At Willow Creek, near Ephraim, he was seized by a party of men under 38-year-old Warren Snow, the bishop of Manti, who "took him into the willows," and castrated him "in a brutal manner Tearing the chords right out." They left the youth lying in the snow, bleeding and senseless on "a bitter cold night." He was found two days later, crazed and nearly dead.

Brigham Young's brother, Joseph, himself on the Mormon hierarchy, disapproved this act and told his younger sibling that "he would rather die than to be made a Eunuch." To this, Brigham Young replied the day was coming when thousands would be made eunuchs "in order for them to be saved in the kingdom of God." Moreover, he said, apparently referring to Snow, "when a man is trying to do right & do[es] some thing that is not exactly in order I feel to sustain him & we all should."

Young's tolerance for the misdeeds of loyal subordinates meant that justice would be delayed for the victim of the crime on willow Creeek, but some twenty-six years later, retribution apparently did come to the perpetrator. After several unsuccessful attempts by persons unknown to return Snow the favor he paid young Lewis, the following notice appeared on October 10, 1883, in The Salt Lake Tribune under the headline, "Retributive Justice": Bishop Warren Snow couldn't attend Conference by reason of sickness, which was brought on by a band of men, who served him as he served a young man several years hence. The Bishop is no longer a man. 'Vengeance is mine,' saith the Lord."

Bigler's source for the castration description is the diary of Samuel Pitchforth, for the Young brother's discussion, Wilford Woodriff's Journal, and the Salt Lake Tribune article tidbit was passed on to Bigler from Hal Schindler (god bless him!)

Thanks, Blixa! I've never before heard that Bishop Snow was himself castrated as retribution for his castration of Lewis. I really appreciate your input and hope that your dental drama is resolved soon and painlessly.

KA

[_Mr. Coffee]

Dang, you stole my ideer. I was totally going to do a parody where the Mythbusters attempt to replicate Joseph's run through the woods with the Gold Plates.

If you can give me an idea of the dimensions of the plates and how many their were I could give you an approxmation of the mass Joseph Smith would be trying to run with.

[_Yoda]

Brigham Young's brother, Joseph, himself on the Mormon hierarchy, disapproved this act and told his younger sibling that "he would rather die than to be made a Eunuch." To this, Brigham Young replied the day was coming when thousands would be made eunuchs "in order for them to be saved in the kingdom of God." Moreover, he said, apparently referring to Snow, "when a man is trying to do right & do[es] some thing that is not exactly in order I feel to sustain him & we all should."

This doesn't say much for Brigham Young's character.

[_Blixa]

Thanks KA, I'm slowly getting my dental needs taken care of--this has stymied my return to Utah, though, so I'm amply frustrated.

Anyway, to return to the castrations.

Here are some more, including the castration-as-punishment-for-incest that harmony asked after:

"In February 1858 Salt Lake City's police captian Hosea Stout described with no disapproval how Mormons, "disguised as Indians" dragged a man "out of bed with a whore and castrated him by a square & close amputation."

Several months later Stout was asked by a non-Mormon federal judge to investigate the castration of a man for committing adultery.

(these are from Stout's diary as cited by Quinn MH Vol.II)

April 1858 Henry Jones and his mother were shot to death for comitting incest by the bishop of Payson, his brother (the Sheriff of Payson) and several ward members. Jones was also castrated. The infant, his daughter/sister was also killed.

(again from Quinn with multiple references to affidavits in the long drawn out case against the murderers)

Quinn also remarks on "vigilante castrations" in passing, for such reasons as adultery, incest, bestiality and visiting prostitutes.

I've run across an account of two castrations as reported by John W. Phelps. Phelps was a U.S. Army captian stationed at Camp Floyd and his diaries are chock-full of interesting information about a variety of violent incidents in Utah (and also the weather). A transciption of extracts from his Utah diaries made by Dale Morgan and used by Juanita Brooks and others is available at the Marriott Library and the Utah Historical Society. I've been reading the originals in the NYPL archives and may have found some errors in the Morgan transciption---nothing important, but I'm getting photocopies made of several passages in order to check them against the Utah transcripts. Naturally, I've mislaid my transcription this morning so I'll go with Quinn's account and cite you the entire passage in Phelps's own words later:

"In March of 1859 a U.S. soldier's diary recorded that "two youths" fled to the U.S. Army camn after being "castrated by the Mormons." One "handsome young Dane" had been courting a girl whom an LDS bishop wanted. To dispose of his rival, the bishop claimed the young man "had committed bestiality and had him castrated."

Quinn makes the argument that this story may have gotten fused with the earlier Snow/Lewis castration in Lee's account and in other discussions of castrations of this period in Utah.

I will give you Phelps's account of the young man's own words as soon as I straighten out my working muddle. If I do find transciption errors, I'll dontate photocopies of the relevant pages to the Marriott Library so others can look at Phelps's work "first hand." He is an interesting historical character. After Camp Floyd he went on to have a fascinating Civil War career (first advocated the use of ex-slaves as soldiers) and later ran for President of the United States on an anti-Mason ticket. I believe he is credited with the poorest showing of a presidential candidate: 700 votes. Like many a gentleman of his era, he wrote voluminously on an astonishing array of subjects in the most florid style possible.

[_Bond...James Bond]

If you can give me an idea of the dimensions of the plates and how many their were I could give you an approxmation of the mass Joseph Smith would be trying to run with.

Wikipedia says They were 6
inches wide by 8 inches long and 6 inches thick. But there is alot of speculation as to how Golden they were or if they were an alloy or whatever else anyone can imagine.

[_moksha]

April 1858 Henry Jones and his mother were shot to death for committing incest by the bishop of Payson, his brother (the Sheriff of Payson) and several ward members. Jones was also castrated. The infant, his daughter/sister was also killed.

Good thing we live in such times that secular justice can save us from such unholy barbarity.