Let's play Mormon Mythbusters! Episode 1: Castrations

[_Doctor Steuss]

[...]And I kinda have a crush on the "Dirty Jobs" guy. [...]

Me too.

[_Bond...James Bond]

[...]And I kinda have a crush on the "Dirty Jobs" guy. [...]

Me too.

(Me three.)

[_moksha]

…and Moksha,

Could you provide a page number (and book) if you get a chance? I’d like to see what sources Quinn is utilizing and whether or not they are contemporary and/or dependant upon Lee. Methinks it would be pretty groovy if there was more out there (that I'm just not aware of) as Lee’s account is pretty brief for what would seem to be quite the sordid event.

Sorry Doc, my memory is stretched to the breaking in just remembering the part I posted. However, this forum is full of scholarly investigator types who can no doubt track such information down. This was a sad event in Mormon history. I can understand the Bishop's avarice and anger getting the better of him, but I have a much harder time with understanding Brigham Young's thinking despite his brother's advice to flying drop kick Bishop Snow.

[_moksha]

Bond, you must write that parody in order to receive the Oscar.

[_Doctor Steuss]

…and Moksha,

Could you provide a page number (and book) if you get a chance? I’d like to see what sources Quinn is utilizing and whether or not they are contemporary and/or dependant upon Lee. Methinks it would be pretty groovy if there was more out there (that I'm just not aware of) as Lee’s account is pretty brief for what would seem to be quite the sordid event.

Sorry Doc, my memory is stretched to the breaking in just remembering the part I posted. However, this forum is full of scholarly investigator types who can no doubt track such information down. This was a sad event in Mormon history. I can understand the Bishop's avarice and anger getting the better of him, but I have a much harder time with understanding Brigham Young's thinking despite his brother's advice to flying drop kick Bishop Snow.

Do you remember which brother it was (was it Lorenzo Young?).

[_Blixa]

I don't have time to check my books tonight...but I'll try to get to it soon. I think there are multiple sources for the Snow incidend and also an aftermath. I'll check in Sunday, probably (continuing dental work is keeping me from the computer).

[_rcrocket]

This is from "THE LIFE AND CONFESSIONS OF THE LATE Mormon BISHOP, JOHN D. LEE; ALSO THE TRUE HISTORY OF THE HORRIBLE BUTCHERY KNOWN AS THE MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE" (How's that for a title). It is taken from page 285.

Lee had no firsthand knowledge of this event, and didn't even live anywhere near its occurrence. The story was reported in the Salt Lake Tribune long after its occurrence, and Lee's lawyer pieced this story from the Tribune's account, or at least one of his biographers contended. Consult Quinn for better sources on this story.

rcrocket

[_KimberlyAnn]

Thomas Lewis was the young man who was castrated. Quinn writes about him on pages 250-251 of his book, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power. Here's an excerpt:

"In May 1857, Bishop Warren S. Snow's counselor wrote that twenty-four year old Thomas Lewis 'has now gone crazy' after being castrated by Bishop Snow for an undisclosed sex crime. When informed of Snow's action, Young said, 'I feel to sustain him.' "

It appears Young didn't have much of a problem sustaining a Bishop who took it upon himself to castrate a young rival for a beautiful girl's affection. The girl apparently married Bishop Snow, as it wasn't much use marrying poor Thomas after the bishop castrated him.

I must have read about the castration in Quinn's book and Abane's book, also, as I have both. I also have the book by Lee, though I'm not certain about the credibility of his account.

That's all I have so far. I await further knowledge from Blixa. (Blixa, I'm sorry about your dental troubles. I hope you feel better soon.)

KA

[_moksha]

Thomas Lewis was the young man who was castrated. Quinn writes about him on pages 250-251 of his book, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power. Here's an excerpt:

"In May 1857, Bishop Warren S. Snow's counselor wrote that twenty-four year old Thomas Lewis 'has now gone crazy' after being castrated by Bishop Snow for an undisclosed sex crime. When informed of Snow's action, Young said, 'I feel to sustain him.' "

It appears Young didn't have much of a problem sustaining a Bishop who took it upon himself to castrate a young rival for a beautiful girl's affection. The girl apparently married Bishop Snow, as it wasn't much use marrying poor Thomas after the bishop castrated him.

I must have read about the castration in Quinn's book and Abane's book, also, as I have both. I also have the book by Lee, though I'm not certain about the credibility of his account.

That's all I have so far. I await further knowledge from Blixa. (Blixa, I'm sorry about your dental troubles. I hope you feel better soon.)

KA

I could see some enterprising young apologist pointing out that these events are dubious because we do not have any journals from Thomas Lewis' progeny.
It is interesting how the counselor used the method of claiming the wrongdoing on the victims part, as the beginning of shifting the blame and beginning the cover-up. It is good he did, because the Omerta (code of silence) does not leave historical records.

[_KimberlyAnn]

I could see some enterprising young apologist pointing out that these events are dubious because we do not have any journals from Thomas Lewis' progeny.

LOL! I think you're right, Moksha. What a clever man you are!

I found the following in an article by the Tanners. It's a quote from Wilford Woodruff's journal:

"I then went into the president office & spent the evening. Bishop Blackburn was present. The subject Came up of some persons leaving Provo who had Apostatized. Some thought that Bishop Blackburn & President Snow was to blame. Brother Joseph Young presented the thing to presidnt Young. But When the Circumstances were told Presidet Brigham Young sustained the Brethren who presided at Provo....
"The subjects of Eunuchs came up... Brigham Said the day would Come when thousands would be made Eunochs in order for them to be saved in the kingdom of God." (Wilford Woodruff's Diary, June 2, 1857, Vol. 5, pages 54-55)

I wonder what in the world caused Brigham Young to think a man could be "saved" by being made a eunuch? Maybe the same thing that made him think blood atonement saved people, I guess. I know there are active Mormons on this board, and you are one of them, if I remember correctly, Moksha, but I don't understand how anyone could think Brigham Young was a prophet of a supposedly loving God. I think Brigham Young was a disgusting, cruel despot and the furthest thing from a prophet. Who could take the side of Bishop Snow after the awful things he did? Only a hard, wicked man, in my opinion.

If anyone has any further information I'd appreciate it!

KA