Sunday School Lesson Chart

[_barrelomonkeys]

Having messed with the occult (specifically Satanism) in the past that it sucks. What sucks the most is when it starts working.

I messed with it too... and much like the God stuff it was zippo in the results department for me.

What worked for you Nehor?

[_silentkid]

Also you should know you're not alone, some songs have already been covered.

"we like to watch movies while listening to hotel California to see if it syncs up in a significant way, and so far, no, nothing has."
-Mort Goldman (Family Guy)

I think that the genesis of this idea was listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon while watching The Wizard of Oz. Family Guy is spoofing that. I figured I'd give Anthem of the Sun a go because it hadn't been used yet (at least in pop culture discourse).

[_Blixa]

*still waiting for Messing With The Occult thread*

[_Coggins7]

The only problem with Gad's chart is that it both a gross oversimplification of Gospel Doctrine and a simplistic false dichotomy that doesn't actually exist within Church teaching. Life can be bad on occasion for no other reason than that it is life, and life, being mortal, is difficult by definition. We get sick, we have accidents, we lose jobs ect. There is no doubt that God blesses us for our obedience (in his own manner and time), and withholds blessings or curses (when we are becoming ripe) us (in his own manner and time) when we transgress his laws, but the complexities of this are many and he deals with each of us idiosyncratically based upon the unique features of the lives, capacities, and experiences of each.

Gadianton really doesn't understand LDS theology very well, as he made quite clear at ZLMB over an extended period of time.

[_Coggins7]

Mormunlogic. It was already bad enough and you just keep making it worse.

Unfortunately Lucretia, the only other alternative is Dawkins, ie., the experiences of the children of rape of genocide mean absolutely and utterly nothing. The Gospel holds out the possibility that the horrors some experience in this life were not experienced in vain, as in your world or in Dawkin's or Sagan's, or Hawking's world. They need not have been experienced as merely terrible epiphenomena of a cold, purposeless universe, but can be seen, from the perspective of the Atonement, the grace of Christ, and the panorama of the plan of salvation, as meaningful, no matter how unpleasant, and as something out of which greater good can ultimately come if paired with a knowledge of the Gospel and the healing power of the atonement.

It has always struck me as interesting that the most vigorous pacifists are those who fear death the most because they believe there is nothing beyond it, and the most critical of the existence of evil in the world are precisely those who's own materialist philosophy precludes the concept of evil having any intrinsic meaning.

[_The Nehor]

Having messed with the occult (specifically Satanism) in the past that it sucks. What sucks the most is when it starts working.

I messed with it too... and much like the God stuff it was zippo in the results department for me.

What worked for you Nehor?

See occult thread.

[_The Nehor]

Also you should know you're not alone, some songs have already been covered.

"we like to watch movies while listening to hotel California to see if it syncs up in a significant way, and so far, no, nothing has."
-Mort Goldman (Family Guy)

I think that the genesis of this idea was listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon while watching The Wizard of Oz. Family Guy is spoofing that. I figured I'd give Anthem of the Sun a go because it hadn't been used yet (at least in pop culture discourse).

It was, I prefer to listen to "If you could hie to Kolob" while watching Power Rangers......so far, nothing.

[_The Nehor]

You think children are prepared for the material of genocide and rape? If He knows who will pass and fail what is the point? The experience of passing or failing is vital? How so?

Actually, I don't ever give up on a student. If a student fails it is entirely my fault, the way I see it. And I'll tell you what, I don't EVER give up on my students. Are you saying God gives up on his children? I'm not really following you here.

I'm not being flippant with my questions. I really want an answer! An answer that makes sense to me. I don't believe God would have answers that go against reason and logic. Why does God test children that he knows will fail?

The children may or may not be prepared. However I think sometimes we overstate the issue. No one 'experiences' genocide. We can talk about the sum total of human suffering but if anyone has felt it it was Christ. No mortal has. If we add up all the pain one person can feel we have reached a horrible place no doubt but no one knows the extent of pain of a genocide. The experience is key. Take one of the strangest stories in scripture. Abraham being asked to sacrifice Isaac. It made no sense at all. In the end he didn't have to do it. Why was he asked to? God didn't learn anything. Abraham did. He was stronger for it and had new knowledge of what he could do. On a simpler level suppose I could see the future and knew that a boy would one day be the greatest surgeon who ever lived. I'm not giving that boy a scalpel and telling him to do an appendectomy on me for many years. The experience is what will make him a surgeon. The same holds true for spiritual things as well. Death is not as serious as we make it out to be. Mortal suffering has absolutely nothing on hell. Hell scares me far more than a maniac with a gun or even with a torture machine.

You might not give up on a student but you're not God. God is omniscient. He knows that it can't be his fault as he KNOWS he did everything he could. He can also see into the future and know that there will be no success.

My response wasn't entirely flippant. This life is vital. I don't know why for most people. I do know some of why I'm here but that's it. Some seem to not need it and die in childhood and go home to glory. I have some kinks to work out and things to do. For why others go through what they do, I have no idea. I seriously doubt my mind in this state is capable of knowing. I'm guessing the reasons are as numerous as there are people.

[_Who Knows]

the only other alternative is Dawkins, ie., the experiences of the children of rape of genocide mean absolutely and utterly nothing.

Talk about distortion. You have no idea what you're talking about.

The Gospel holds out the possibility that the horrors some experience in this life were not experienced in vain, as in your world or in Dawkin's or Sagan's, or Hawking's world. They need not have been experienced as merely terrible epiphenomena of a cold, purposeless universe, but can be seen, from the perspective of the Atonement, the grace of Christ, and the panorama of the plan of salvation, as meaningful, no matter how unpleasant, and as something out of which greater good can ultimately come if paired with a knowledge of the Gospel and the healing power of the atonement.

Well, I'd like to think that if I behave, santa claus will bring me lots of presents. But that doesn't make it so...

It has always struck me as interesting that the most vigorous pacifists are those who fear death the most because they believe there is nothing beyond it, and the most critical of the existence of evil in the world are precisely those who's own materialist philosophy precludes the concept of evil having any intrinsic meaning.

Well, that's not been my experience.

I see the glass half full...

[_barrelomonkeys]

The children may or may not be prepared. However I think sometimes we overstate the issue. No one 'experiences' genocide. We can talk about the sum total of human suffering but if anyone has felt it it was Christ. No mortal has. If we add up all the pain one person can feel we have reached a horrible place no doubt but no one knows the extent of pain of a genocide. The experience is key. Take one of the strangest stories in scripture. Abraham being asked to sacrifice Isaac. It made no sense at all. In the end he didn't have to do it. Why was he asked to? God didn't learn anything. Abraham did. He was stronger for it and had new knowledge of what he could do. On a simpler level suppose I could see the future and knew that a boy would one day be the greatest surgeon who ever lived. I'm not giving that boy a scalpel and telling him to do an appendectomy on me for many years. The experience is what will make him a surgeon. The same holds true for spiritual things as well. Death is not as serious as we make it out to be. Mortal suffering has absolutely nothing on hell. Hell scares me far more than a maniac with a gun or even with a torture machine.

You might not give up on a student but you're not God. God is omniscient. He knows that it can't be his fault as he KNOWS he did everything he could. He can also see into the future and know that there will be no success.

My response wasn't entirely flippant. This life is vital. I don't know why for most people. I do know some of why I'm here but that's it. Some seem to not need it and die in childhood and go home to glory. I have some kinks to work out and things to do. For why others go through what they do, I have no idea. I seriously doubt my mind in this state is capable of knowing. I'm guessing the reasons are as numerous as there are people.

Nehor, I wasn't saying your answers were flippant. I was trying to let you know that I ask with sincerity. I want to understand how those of faith believe when they witness suffering. Things that keep me from faith don't keep others from believing, I want to understand how this is.

Essentially what it boils down to is you have faith that there is a God and a plan.. and I don't. Thank you for taking the time to explain.