Liars

[_Ray A]

As for an explanation, maybe Emma had something akin to battered wife syndrome. She won't have been the first women to "stand by her man," even though he did little to deserve such devotion.

You obviously have not read Mormon Enigma. Or, if you did, you didn't comprehend much. Find me one verse, or chapter, whch suggests that Emma suffered from "battered wife syndrome". Are you a scholar, Mr. Sajer? Reading that book, I suggest there could be a case for the opposite. You sound very PC. I'm not surprised. If Emma was a "battered wife", then I'd like to see the evidence for this.

No doubt she was forced to bear her testimony of her husband's prophetic powers. She just "didn't understand" the "con". She was "battered" into belief. No doubt.

You asked for an explanation, so I floated an off-the-cuff explanation for the hell of it. It was not intended to be taken literally but merely to demonstrate that there are possible explanations out there that account for Emma's behavior and which do not necessarily vindicate her wayward hubby.

I honestly did not consider that someone would conclude that I was making any kind of an affirmative declaration.

I have not read Mormon Enigma, nor am I aware that reading this is a necessary criterion for being a scholar. I was a "scholar" of administrative theory and international development; Mormon studies is not my specialty nor a particular interest of mine. I have limited free time, and in that free time, I prefer historical books, primarily on warfare and an occasional work of fiction (Sister Fidelma mysteries is one of my guilty pleasures).

Good night, for now, Mr. Sajer. I will reply later.

[_Ray A]

No, Ray, I didn't say you were dumb. I don't think you're dumb at all. You're the one in the business of calling people dumb, remember?

True. I love dumb blonde jokes. :) (So does my daughter, who is - blonde)

[Guest]

As for an explanation, maybe Emma had something akin to battered wife syndrome. She won't have been the first women to "stand by her man," even though he did little to deserve such devotion.

You obviously have not read Mormon Enigma. Or, if you did, you didn't comprehend much. Find me one verse, or chapter, whch suggests that Emma suffered from "battered wife syndrome". Are you a scholar, Mr. Sajer? Reading that book, I suggest there could be a case for the opposite. You sound very PC. I'm not surprised. If Emma was a "battered wife", then I'd like to see the evidence for this.

No doubt she was forced to bear her testimony of her husband's prophetic powers. She just "didn't understand" the "con". She was "battered" into belief. No doubt.

You asked for an explanation, so I floated an off-the-cuff explanation for the hell of it. It was not intended to be taken literally but merely to demonstrate that there are possible explanations out there that account for Emma's behavior and which do not necessarily vindicate her wayward hubby.

I honestly did not consider that someone would conclude that I was making any kind of an affirmative declaration.

I have not read Mormon Enigma, nor am I aware that reading this is a necessary criterion for being a scholar. I was a "scholar" of administrative theory and international development; Mormon studies is not my specialty nor a particular interest of mine. I have limited free time, and in that free time, I prefer historical books, primarily on warfare and an occasional work of fiction (Sister Fidelma mysteries is one of my guilty pleasures).

Good night, for now, Mr. Sajer. I will reply later.

Good night Rayboy.

Goodnight Mary Ellen.

Goodnight Jonathan.

Edited to add: No, Ray, I am not politically correct. I am, however, socially liberal, though I am not sure how expressing moral outrage at inveterate liars who manipulate women into their beds and then, to keep their wife from complaining too much, threaten her with destruction via bogus revelations from God qualifies me for being either liberal or PC. This is moral outrage I think most conservatives would feel too, that is, assuming that they do not have a vested emotional interest in rationalizing away said boorish behavior.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

As for an explanation, maybe Emma had something akin to battered wife syndrome. She won't have been the first women to "stand by her man," even though he did little to deserve such devotion.

You obviously have not read Mormon Enigma. Or, if you did, you didn't comprehend much. Find me one verse, or chapter, whch suggests that Emma suffered from "battered wife syndrome". Are you a scholar, Mr. Sajer? Reading that book, I suggest there could be a case for the opposite. You sound very PC. I'm not surprised. If Emma was a "battered wife", then I'd like to see the evidence for this.

No doubt she was forced to bear her testimony of her husband's prophetic powers. She just "didn't understand" the "con". She was "battered" into belief. No doubt.

Maybe Guy was talking about emotional battering, which usually includes death threats ... unless, of course, you believe that an angel really did appear to Joseph and God really would want her destroyed if she refused him plural wives, then I guess there's no use discussing it.

[_Roger Morrison]

Getting back to Liars, and lies... Remember folks we're talking Religion/Mormonism here... Believed because we want to believe them; lies and all, for whatever reason & purpose!

Schmo mentioned Joseph Smith in the woods. What about Moses' burning-bush? Jonah's big-fish? Noah's flood? Jesus ascending into Heaven? Myths, legends, fables and stories supossedly with some moral to them... Santa Claus, Tooth-faries, Leprechauns... believed at ones' own risk of pleasure or pain... all before the days of Shakespere & Holywood... Warm regards, Roger

[_harmony]

Getting back to Liars, and lies... Remember folks we're talking Religion/Mormonism here... Believed because we want to believe them; lies and all, for whatever reason & purpose!

Schmo mentioned Joseph Smith in the woods. What about Moses' burning-bush? Jonah's big-fish? Noah's flood? Jesus ascending into Heaven? Myths, legends, fables and stories supossedly with some moral to them... Santa Claus, Tooth-faries, Leprechauns... believed at ones' own risk of pleasure or pain... all before the days of Shakespere & Holywood... Warm regards, Roger

The thing is, did Moses/Jonah/Noah tell their own stories, or did someone else tell them, long after they were dead, and then eventually someone else wrote them down?

Joseph told his own story. If he lied, he really is a liar. If the stories about the others were lies, that doesn't necessarily make them (if they even existed) liars. If someone tells a story about me umpteen many generations from now that's a lie, that doesn't mean I'm a liar. But if I tell a story about me that's a lie, then I'm a liar.

Am I making the distinction clear?

[_Ray A]

Good night Rayboy.

Goodnight Mary Ellen.

Goodnight Jonathan.

Edited to add: No, Ray, I am not politically correct. I am, however, socially liberal, though I am not sure how expressing moral outrage at inveterate liars who manipulate women into their beds and then, to keep their wife from complaining too much, threaten her with destruction via bogus revelations from God qualifies me for being either liberal or PC. This is moral outrage I think most conservatives would feel too, that is, assuming that they do not have a vested emotional interest in rationalizing away said boorish behavior.

Well, I have news for you, Guy, maybe you will, or will not, be shocked at how many men are "inveterate liars who manipulate women into beds". And this is why the "moral outrage" against Joseph Smith is so hypocritical. And it goes both ways. Last night I had a man in my taxi in tears because his girlfriend cheated on him. All I could do was console him and say "that's life". Chances are he probably cheated too. This is where the exmo naïvété is so strong. Think of how many US presidents, too, have been like this. You have an international airport named after a serial adulterer, yet you point the finger at Joseph Smith? (Sorry if that sounded cheap, because in spite of this, I have a great admiration for, and belief in America. I have always loved America, and have always been inspired by its coinage - "In God We Trust". Yes, in spite of hypocrisy.)

I am more complex in my views than you think I am, but you'd need to talk to me in person to fully understand them.

Yours truly,

Rayboy, Mary Ellen (who doesn't have cross-dressing tendencies), Jonathan, and a million other demonic conservative personalities.

(I know what's coming next: "But Joseph Smith claimed to be a prophet". So was Jacob, the polygamous father of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, yes the son of the one who lied to get the birthright inherited by Jacob. Oh, exmos are so full of moral outrage - but not against society, just Joseph Smith, because he "stole their lives". Think of all that missed coffee and beer :)

[_Jersey Girl]

Ray

This is where the exmo naïvété is so strong. Think of how many US presidents, too, have been like this. You have an international airport named after a serial adulterer, yet you point the finger at Joseph Smith?

Did the US presidents use God as the reason for their adultery?

[_harmony]

Mary Ellen? I wouldn't have recognized you, hon. How're the kids? The grandkids? Didn't I just see you last week? And why didn't you tell me you were moving to Australia when you were complaining about our shared brother-in-law?

Sorry. Enough family business.

Actually, I'm an equal opportunity complainer. I don't appreciate adulterers, liars, or men who put words in God's mouth, no matter who they are or when they lived.

[_Ray A]

Ray

This is where the exmo naïvété is so strong. Think of how many US presidents, too, have been like this. You have an international airport named after a serial adulterer, yet you point the finger at Joseph Smith?

Did the US presidents use God as the reason for their adultery?

For a start, Jersey Girl, I don't believe Joseph Smith "used God as a reason for adultery". But that will have to wait for more explanation, as I'm off to work soon. I only did a post or two in the interim while getting ready for work.