Seyffarth Chronicles, Episode 2: The Ellipses Strike Back

Post by **_CaliforniaKid** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:56 am

Hi Paul,

Just wanted to point out that the OP refers to H. Donl Peterson's book, not to anything Dan Peterson has written. Dan is wise enough not to touch the Book of Abraham topic with a ten-foot pole. Don't pick a fight you can't win and all that. (Instead he spends his time parodying RfM for publication on the FAIR site-- a challenge, I'm sure. Good thing we have BYU's best taking care of that one!)

-CK

Post by **_Dr. Shades** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:22 am

KimberlyAnn wrote:LOL! Paul O, are you for real?

I can personally vouch for the fact that Paul O is, indeed, for real. He's as real as it gets. He's one of the last few holdouts of true Chapel Mormonism--at least here on the Internet--which makes him a highly endangered species.

_Paul Osborne · Post by **_Paul Osborne** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:45 am

LOL! Paul O, are you for real? I'm not familiar with you - are you a critic of Mormonism or a Mormon who strongly dislikes Dr. Peterson? LOL! Paul O, are you for real? I'm not familiar with you - are you a critic of Mormonism or a Mormon who strongly dislikes Dr. Peterson?

Well, I admit, I really dislike Dan Peterson a lot. The guy really rubs me wrong. I’ve sparred with him a couple times on the old FAIR board and found him to be reprehensible. But that’s not the subject matter of this thread.

Bottom line: I’m pissed about the awful FARMS apologetic crap they have fed LDS people over the course of decades. They have used all kinds of tricks and fancy academic maneuvering to fool LDS people into thinking that the controversies have all been solved according to Nibley’s false paradigm. Sometimes I get so angry at them I could just scream! I need to control myself. They better damn well be glad that I live in Texas and not Utah because I’d probably do something I would live to seriously regret.

I value my membership in the Church more than anything in the world. I believe the Book of Abraham is the word of God and that Joseph Smith was into supernatural translations that he himself didn’t even understand. I’ve written a lot on this subject on my website.

Anyway, if Dan is really much of a Christian, he will have already forgiven me in his heart for any wrongdoing on my part. Nonetheless, he likes to fight for the sake of fighting, he likes to pull chains and push buttons. Hey, I've done a lot of that myself over the years so I’m not exactly justified in judging him. But I don't like him for how he acts in reference to his higher education and constant name dropping. I'll tell you right now that if he was ever called to be a GA (he won't just as Nibley wasn't), I would oppose the proposal.

Anyway, I hope that helps explain my position.

Paul O

http://www.myegyptology.net/file/id3.htm

_Paul Osborne · Post by **_Paul Osborne** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:51 am

Paul believes what Brigham Young taught: That people live in the sun, and I'm not saying that sarcastically.

Ray,

I want you to take just a few minutes and read a brief near death experience of someone who went beyond yonder space and came back to tell about it. I believe the account is true. I've studied a lot of these kinds of testimonies and find them interesting. I don't mean to derail the thread but feel you will definately get something out of this.

http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/markh.html

Paul O

Post by **_Polygamy Porter** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:57 am

Paul Osborne wrote:
LOL! Paul O, are you for real? I'm not familiar with you - are you a critic of Mormonism or a Mormon who strongly dislikes Dr. Peterson? LOL! Paul O, are you for real? I'm not familiar with you - are you a critic of Mormonism or a Mormon who strongly dislikes Dr. Peterson?

Well, I admit, I really dislike Dan Peterson a lot. The guy really rubs me wrong. I’ve sparred with him a couple times on the old FAIR board and found him to be reprehensible. But that’s not the subject matter of this thread.

Bottom line: I’m pissed about the awful FARMS apologetic crap they have fed LDS people over the course of decades. They have used all kinds of tricks and fancy academic maneuvering to fool LDS people into thinking that the controversies have all been solved according to Nibley’s false paradigm. Sometimes I get so angry at them I could just scream! I need to control myself. They better damn well be glad that I live in Texas and not Utah because I’d probably do something I would live to seriously regret.

I value my membership in the Church more than anything in the world. I believe the Book of Abraham is the word of God and that Joseph Smith was into supernatural translations that he himself didn’t even understand. I’ve written a lot on this subject on my website.

Anyway, if Dan is really much of a Christian, he will have already forgiven me in his heart for any wrongdoing on my part. Nonetheless, he likes to fight for the sake of fighting, he likes to pull chains and push buttons. Hey, I've done a lot of that myself over the years so I’m not exactly justified in judging him. But I don't like him for how he acts in reference to his higher education and constant name dropping. I'll tell you right now that if he was ever called to be a GA (he won't just as Nibley wasn't), I would oppose the proposal.

Anyway, I hope that helps explain my position.

Paul O

http://www.myegyptology.net/file/id3.htm

Paul,

I hate to break this news to you, but Dan's apologetic and FARMS/Fair work has basically been given the nod from the big 15.

Are you saying that FARMS/Fair work has mislead the lords anointed? OMG! Call the Utah state prison! Mark Hoffman has been outdone! Minus the murders of course. But wow! The lord's anointed fooled again...

What next? Paul O. for prophet?

Good god man! you and Ray are two peas in a pod.

With the mainstream LDS in a state of apostasy in your eyes, why not start up your own brand of LDS? The Osbourne branch.

_Paul Osborne · Post by **_Paul Osborne** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:09 am

CaliforniaKid wrote:Hi Paul,

Just wanted to point out that the OP refers to H. Donl Peterson's book, not to anything Dan Peterson has written. Dan is wise enough not to touch the Book of Abraham topic with a ten-foot pole. Don't pick a fight you can't win and all that. (Instead he spends his time parodying RfM for publication on the FAIR site-- a challenge, I'm sure. Good thing we have BYU's best taking care of that one!)

-CK

Yes, I know. I have a copy of Donl Peterson's book. I can only imagine a big difference in the characters of the two Peterson's.

Dan Peterson is not smart enough to handle the kind of questions and attacks I could dump on him in a debate format. I tell you now that I could tear him to pieces in a Book of Abraham debate. I could take on all of the scholars at FARMS in a debate and flip them upside down in front of everyone. Those guys are so confused and their higher education is actually a weakness when it comes to debating with someone with the likes of me. But I don't want to fight about it. I'm tired, very tired.

Paul O

_Ray A · Post by **_Ray A** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:11 am

Paul Osborne wrote:
Paul believes what Brigham Young taught: That people live in the sun, and I'm not saying that sarcastically.

Ray,

I want you to take just a few minutes and read a brief near death experience of someone who went beyond yonder space and came back to tell about it. I believe the account is true. I've studied a lot of these kinds of testimonies and find them interesting. I don't mean to derail the thread but feel you will definately get something out of this.

http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/markh.html

Paul O

Paul,

Thanks for the link. It's pretty typical of most NDEs. Especially this:

In summary I suppose the question many would ask is "was it worth dying?"

I would have to answer joyfully, "Yes!"

Kevin Williams has recently written a book titled Nothing Better Than Death.

This is also quite typical of most NDEs:

I was changed forever. I simply am. We are all one, we are all "God." Or perhaps "God" is all of us. I have thought long on the biblical phrase "And God made man in His image." I wonder if perhaps this really means that man is created and exists in "God"'s imagination which is then man's reality. I am no bibli- cal scholar and will not debate theologies since those are so very personal, but that possible interpretation of the biblical phrase is interesting for me to contemplate. I do not profess to any specific religion at all; never have, and definitely now nev- er will, for they are all right and all wrong... merely man's at- tempt to quantify, regiment, and control even the spiritual as- pect of the individual. I now know that living to be kind and love each other is the only true "religion" there is; if one must label something "religion." From what I've read and spoken to other NDEers about, this seems to be an almost universal feeling amongst those who've had NDEs. We may describe what we've "seen" in various religious terms depending upon background and pre-NDE beliefs, but the message of universal love and forgiveness is the same.

If I sound blase it's because I've read hundreds of accounts like this, but it's all still very interesting.

Post by **_Polygamy Porter** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:18 am

Paul Osborne wrote:
CaliforniaKid wrote:Hi Paul,

Just wanted to point out that the OP refers to H. Donl Peterson's book, not to anything Dan Peterson has written. Dan is wise enough not to touch the Book of Abraham topic with a ten-foot pole. Don't pick a fight you can't win and all that. (Instead he spends his time parodying RfM for publication on the FAIR site-- a challenge, I'm sure. Good thing we have BYU's best taking care of that one!)

-CK

Yes, I know. I have a copy of Donl Peterson's book. I can only imagine a big difference in the characters of the two Peterson's.

Dan Peterson is not smart enough to handle the kind of questions and attacks I could dump on him in a debate format. I tell you now that I could tear him to pieces in a Book of Abraham debate. I could take on all of the scholars at FARMS in a debate and flip them upside down in front of everyone. Those guys are so confused and their higher education is actually a weakness when it comes to debating with someone with the likes of me. But I don't want to fight about it. I'm tired, very tired.

Paul O

Put your money where your mouth is Paul.

When Dan comes back from his trip, we will see if he is up to your challenge.

Why don't you start a new thread, presenting your arguments first?

I bet you are not up to the challenge and will back out and not start a new topic.

_Paul Osborne · Post by **_Paul Osborne** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:22 am

I hate to break this news to you, but Dan's apologetic and FARMS/Fair work has basically been given the nod from the big 15.

You're nuts. The GA's do not endorse the apologetic theories of FARMS as doctrine. Even so, if they believe the apologetic paradigm set up by Nibley then they are all wrong! Does that change anything for me? No, It doesn't. The Church is still true, run by men who have opinions, some correct and some not. I'd be the first to tell the prophet that I don't believe the FARMS excuses and that I believe the KEP is inspired.

What do you think the prophet would do to me, spank me? I'm not an apostate because I disagree strongly with FARMS and think their tactics suck. You just want me to be an apostate like you but that will never happen. I love the Lord and am loyal to him. You are a traitor and deserve the lower kingdom. Now, you may laugh in your wickedness.

Paul O

_Paul Osborne · Post by **_Paul Osborne** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:31 am

Put your money where your mouth is Paul.

When Dan comes back from his trip, we will see if he is up to your challenge.

Why don't you start a new thread, presenting your arguments first?

I bet you are not up to the challenge and will back out and not start a new topic.

Maybe I will and maybe I won't. I do as I please. I don't have to put any money in my mouth but I stand by what I say, nonetheless.

I've not yet employed the kind of debate style needed to turn those guys over but I have the skill and the knowledge if need be. I don't fall for the tricks of their trade.

But, as I say, I'm tired. I'm tired of arguing.

Paul O