I am considering going back to church

[_Seven]

We have future baptisms ahead, I am about to have a baby who will be blessed, my kids remain active, most of my family are TBMs........I feel as if there is no way out of this but to go back and be a part of raising our children with him in this culture.

Of course there is a way out. Instead of trying to match him, get him to match you. Simply share with him the information you have discovered.

Oh, I have shared it all back when I first discovered it. It causes too much contention now when we debate religion so I come to the boards when I need to vent. He will accuse me of acting like a critic on MAD when I try to sincerely discuss contradictions between doctrine and sciptures.

Considering everything you've told us about them--how they cast aspersions on you, make the most negative assumptions possible about you, intimate that your husband should divorce you--it's more than clear that these people are not your friends. They are your enemies. To Hell with those people.

I feel much the same, but unfortuantely when you get married, you marry the family too.

Looks like you haven't found your husband's "trigger" yet. Order By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus for him; he'll come around. For some reason, that book works on males much better than the other issues you mentioned.

Very true. He has taken the position of many apologists-Prophets can speak and reveal things in the name of God that are just opinions so it magically takes away any problems for him. The Book of Abraham was the trigger for a few family members on my side that left the church and he has discussed the topic at length with them, has seen many threads on MAD, read Palmer, etc... After all he has seen and read, I don't see anything taking him out of Mormonism. He also feels the cultural pressures from family and in my opinion, that has kept him loyal to the church.

[_Seven]

Seven,

I'm probably dumb for asking this....but how long have you not been attending LDS services?

I think it's been over a year now but I discovered the church's dirty secrets more than 2 years ago and remained active for quite a while during the most painful time.

After trying everything to gain some peace and answers to prayers over what I had learned, I finally had to ask the Bishop to release me from my calling. That was very tough to do because I knew I was burning bridges as soon as I went inactive. He didn't know what to do with me and needed some time to read up on the things I was telling him about church history. His heart was in the right place but he really was clueless on how to handle this. Some of the things he said made me embarrassed for the poor guy. He was your typical Chapel Mormon thinking I was repeating a bunch of anti Mormon lies. Since that time I heard he has gone to FAIR/MAD (I referred him there to confirm what I was telling him).

[_harmony]

After all he has seen and read, I don't see anything taking him out of Mormonism. He also feels the cultural pressures from family and in my opinion, that has kept him loyal to the church.

My DH would never leave the church, so I see no reason to upset him. He is what he is, and that hasn't changed in the almost 36 years we've been married. I certainly don't expect him to all of a sudden wake up one morning with the idea that he's going to get to the bottom of (insert whatever my current hissy fit is about here). He knows of my "heretic" views. It's a family joke. Heck, it's a ward joke! I'm introduced as either "Mom, the family heretic. Whatever you do, don't mention plural marriage" (complete with rolling eyes), or "Sister Harmony, the wisest heretic we've ever had in our ward." The things that bother me just don't bother many others. I have a small support group that shares my feelings, and they have helped me cope quite often. And when I need answers, I find them.

I gave all my sons and my DH a copy of Rough Stone Rolling for Christmas last year. One of them read it. DH never even opened it up. He's just not interested in what happened almost 200 years ago. He's more concerned about helping with the Scouts, or keeping his EMT training up to date, or Mariner baseball, or playing with his grand kids or the dogs. He's just not interested! He goes to church on Sunday because that's what he's always done. He teaches the Deacons, and comes home. He doesn't pester me to go (talk about an exercise in futility!). He goes to Mutual on Wednesday nights, and once a month, he has BYC. We attend ward activities (like the 24th of July picnic last night) if I feel like it. If I don't, we don't.

I don't have any young children at home (thank you, God). I taught mine what I thought was important and sent them out into the world. I taught them what I believed, and I taught them to think for themselves, to never let anyone do their thinking for them. I taught them that they alone were responsible for their choices, and the consequences of those choices would follow them all their lives, so to choose wisely. Sometimes they have. A few times they haven't. But out of the 8, I only have one that doesn't take personal responsibility for their choices on a regular basis (none of us is perfect, so I have one I'm still working with). That's what I think is important: to never let them get away with blaming someone else for their own choices. I cannot tell you the number of times I asked them (after they did something really stupid or listened to the wrong person): what did you learn from this experience? Now I see them using the same question on their own children. And I still ask that question, even of the oldest who is 35.

Seven, you'll have to find your own way. What worked for me or LIz or PP or Merc or Shades won't work for you. Whatever you do, follow your heart. Don't let the pressure to conform crush your spirit. Wearing a mask gets really old, when you have to wear it 24/7, and can never take it off. Be who you are, not who anyone else wants you to be. Those who love you will never want you to be anyone but who you really are, and you will know who those people are by the way they behave while you're trying to find yourself. Have patience with yourself. We're all works in progress.

[_Polygamy Porter]

An 18 year old YW.... oh boy.. we can only hope she does not get coerced into fulfilling her what she has been taught to be her eternal destiny.... married before she is 20 to some zealous horny RM....

She's attending Utah State University this Fall on a Theater scholarship. Her plans are to complete her undergraduate work in Theater with a minor in Political Science and then attend Law School. This summer she worked as an intern at her uncle's law firm.

No inherent marriage plans in sight.

YET.
In my experience, USU is pretty close to the same level of breeding ground as BYU. I am not saying that your daughter is on the hunt ok? I am just pointing out my observations as I did grow up near there and have family that lived there. Over the past 15 years of seeing YW head off to college and few full of vim and vigor ready to get that degree and take the world by storm, NONE have done so. Just my experience. YMMV.

I honestly don't know why you keep trying to stereotype my family. If you read my prior posts, the daughter who graduated is the same daughter who was an active member of GSA.

Wow, they upped the age limit on Girl Scouts... Ha ha.
Look Liz, I am not sterotyping YOUR family. I am merely pointing out the reality of young girls who are active in the YW program. The majority will drop out of college to get married to an RM(who statistically, probably is horny) and start popping out the tabernacles of clay for the chosen generation of spirits to fill..

I can see that you are not really interested in having an adult conversation, and are simply trying to throw pot-shots my way.

Not pot shots, just observations about the Mormon culture, in general.

Until you are adult enough to apologize for your rudeness, I will no longer converse with you or answer your questions.

Fine.

Edited to add---PP, let me make this clear. I am not asking you to apologize for your views, or for your opinions regarding the Church. I respect our differences there. I simply wish that you would respect my viewpoint as well. You don't have to agree with me, but there is certainly no cause for the type of behavior you have distributed toward me as of late.

Ok.

[_Yoda]

Look Liz, I am not sterotyping YOUR family.

Thank you for saying that. PP, as Jersey Girl mentioned on the other "PP Pointers" thread I started, it's not your facts, it's your delivery. You asked me a question about the age I would allow my children to make their own decisions regarding coming to Church. I took your question seriously, and gave you an honest, open answer, and you came back with a crack about my daughter getting married to the first RM who came along because I had mentioned that she was still active. Do you see how that can cause a Mom to put her bristles up? ;)

After talking with you more and via PM, I understand now that you were speaking in generalizations. However, since you bothered to ask a question, at least acknowledge the answer next time instead of going into another tirade regarding Mormonism's cultural generalizations.

I do understand what you are saying about the YW program. Frankly, there are a lot of things about the current YW program that I find creepy. When the girls stand and recite the "Young Women values", I do find that very cultish. It actually makes my blood run cold every time I hear them do it. Frankly, neither of my girls are that active in the YW program because they are so busy with school activities which tend to conflict (drama, music, sports).

I am a product of "succumbing to peer pressure" to a certain degree. I met my husband at BYU. We got married when we were both 22. I was scared to death of being an old maid. LOL That seems so silly now. I love my husband and don't regret the marriage.....but I do think we married too young. We were both still in school.

I had to drop out of college after my oldest daughter was born because I had gall bladder disease, and between the surgery and a new baby, my health wouldn't allow me to continue. I went back to school when I was 35...completed what was left of my Bachelor's in Music and also completed my Master's degree in Computer Science. My girls were middle school then, and I think it was important for them to see that education was important to me. I have counseled them not to make some of the same mistakes I made, and get their education while they are young. However, I have also made it clear that it is NEVER too late to get your education, so if something does happen, it is a do-able goal, and something you should never give up on.

As far as my daughter attending USU in Logan is concerned.....there are a few factors we took into consideration. First of all, she has a strong interest in Theater, and USU has an excellent Theater program. She is going in on an acting scholarship. My brother is a professional opera singer, and has sung several tenor leads on contract with Michael Ballum's opera company in Logan last year. You would like my brother. He truly IS a Jack Mormon. LOL He told me that in Logan, the Church should be called "the Church of Michael Ballum of Latter-Day Saints". LOL Apparently, he has done a lot of financial backing for the community there. At any rate, because of my brother's connections, my daughter has a spot doing an internship with Ballum's opera company next summer, which was part of the draw in us sending her there. Also, my brother said that the young people who graduated from the performance programs at USU were very talented and extremely top-notch. Also, knowing that my daughter is more like me, and laid back as far as religion, my brother said that it would be a good fit because there are not a lot of "Nazi Mormons" there, particularly in the arts.

So you see? I actually have done my homework on this. That's why I was pissed when you made the comment you did. So sue me for taking things personally. I'm a Mom. I tend to do that. ;)

Thanks for the PM. I do understand where you were coming from as well, and as far as I'm concerned, we're good.

[_Polygamy Porter]

*high five* righto!

[_Seven]

After all he has seen and read, I don't see anything taking him out of Mormonism. He also feels the cultural pressures from family and in my opinion, that has kept him loyal to the church.

My DH would never leave the church, so I see no reason to upset him. He is what he is, and that hasn't changed in the almost 36 years we've been married. I certainly don't expect him to all of a sudden wake up one morning with the idea that he's going to get to the bottom of (insert whatever my current hissy fit is about here). He knows of my "heretic" views. It's a family joke. Heck, it's a ward joke! I'm introduced as either "Mom, the family heretic. Whatever you do, don't mention plural marriage" (complete with rolling eyes), or "Sister Harmony, the wisest heretic we've ever had in our ward." The things that bother me just don't bother many others. I have a small support group that shares my feelings, and they have helped me cope quite often. And when I need answers, I find them.

Thanks for sharing that Harmony. I don't have any local support group, but coming here and finding women and men who share my beliefs about polygamy and other doctrinal errors has helped me cope so much. I also have no desire to change my husband. He is truly happy with his beliefs and loyalty to the church and I would never want to take that from him. He's a great guy with high values and family comes first for him. I would never complain about that.
I can live with being the family heretic who challenges contradictory beliefs, and I won't pretend to be something I am not.
I also can't keep quiet on certain issues so I hope I can find a way to make this work.
As the truth of Mormon history becomes more acceptable to discuss, hopefully there will be more members like us out there. People who can find some good in Mormonism but also be honest enough to admit the harmful errors so they are never repeated again.