Seven, my quick advice is to not worry about things so much (or overthink them like Bond). Just try to find as many good items as you can at Church and seek out your own meanings. If you do feel religious, then spiritual comminion can be found at most any Church. Look for that and not let the back story deny you this communion.
The Prize is your Family and your eyes need to be on the prize.
I am considering going back to church
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_richardMdBorn
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 1639
- Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:05 am
I suggest you teach on I Cor 7:12-13 :) (except that I think you're the believing one).Maybe I can teach Gospel Doctrine when I go back or a church history class ;) Seriously though, I will try to make something good of this if I go back and I won't allow myths to continue when I hear them.
Richard
Keep Considering
“To thine own self be true.” William Shakespeare
You cannot please everyone no matter what you do or what decisions you make. The advice to Laertes 400 years ago is relevant to your situation.
The text:
“Yet here, Laertes! Aboard, aboard for shame! The wind sits in the shoulder of your sail, And you are stay'd for. There ... my blessing with thee! And these few precepts in thy memory Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue, Nor any unproportion'd thought his act. Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried, Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel; But do not dull thy palm with entertainment Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg’d comrade. Beware Of entrance to a quarrel but, being in, Bear't that th' opposed may beware of thee. Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice; Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgement.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy, But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy; For the apparel oft proclaims the man; And they in France of the best rank and station Are of a most select and generous chief in that. Neither a borrower, nor a lender be; For loan oft loses both itself and friend, And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry. This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man. Farewell; my blessing season this in thee!” William Shakespeare
JAK
You cannot please everyone no matter what you do or what decisions you make. The advice to Laertes 400 years ago is relevant to your situation.
The text:
“Yet here, Laertes! Aboard, aboard for shame! The wind sits in the shoulder of your sail, And you are stay'd for. There ... my blessing with thee! And these few precepts in thy memory Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue, Nor any unproportion'd thought his act. Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried, Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel; But do not dull thy palm with entertainment Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg’d comrade. Beware Of entrance to a quarrel but, being in, Bear't that th' opposed may beware of thee. Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice; Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgement.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy, But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy; For the apparel oft proclaims the man; And they in France of the best rank and station Are of a most select and generous chief in that. Neither a borrower, nor a lender be; For loan oft loses both itself and friend, And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry. This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man. Farewell; my blessing season this in thee!” William Shakespeare
JAK
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_asbestosman
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 6215
- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:32 pm
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_Jason Bourne
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 9207
- Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm
Re: I am considering going back to church
Religion is a threat and danger in virtually all forms.
Is is? Why? How? Because you say so?
It relies on ignorance and intolerance.
It does? Why? How?
It also relies on doctrine which ignores facts and evidence.
What facts and evidences does religion ignore?
Intellectual honesty is also generally not tolerated by religion. Do you want that to be your persona?
Not really but this seems the rallying cry of secularism.
To be sure, some religious groups permit more elasticity in perspective than others.
How kind of you to give a bit of wiggle room for religion.
Even so, fiction (doctrine) takes precedence over fact. If one is joined to Islam, Buddhism, some version of Christianity, or any other religion, doctrine trumps fact. It also trumps intelligent inquiry and rational probe.
Fiction according to what proof? Can you prove God is fictional?
Both inquiry and rational probe are a threat to religious doctrine. They both demonstrate that a person, an intellect is at work thinking. I suspect you understand that thinking and expression of doubt is not welcomed by religion.
Yes I agree doubt is not encouraged.
Recently, Pope Benedict XVI asserted that the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is the one and only true church. This, in the face of the $650 million judgment against the RCC for sex abuse by the clergy.
What does the bad behavior of come priests have to do with whether or not the Catholic Church is true?
Your dilemma has to do with your capacity to pretend you don’t know what you have stated. Can you do that? What’s it worth in personal integrity to be dishonest
Religion does operate based on faith but faith does note mean one is lacking integrity or dishonest.
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_The Nehor
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 11832
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am
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_Sam Harris
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 2261
- Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:35 am
Seven, I'll be keeping you in my thoughts as well. Pray on it, and do what you feel is right in your heart. It's a terribly difficult decision to make, and your kin are being insensitive in their implications about you. But kin can do that sometimes, they don't realize what they are doing, they think it "tough love".
Mok is a good teacher on how to deal with the things that you cannot abide with in the church, he helped me during my difficult times.
I do have one suggestion, though. Perhaps it might help (and it might do just the opposite, but in the end I think it would do good once you finally left if that is what you ultimately decide to do) if you do not limit your spiritual quest solely to the church. Attend another church some sundays, perhaps go to church with fam every other sunday, and on off sundays go to another church if you wish, or stay home. Read up on other faiths, do something that feeds you spiritually, that's very important, because if you're just going through the motions, and you do not feel that you're being taken care of, then you'll just suffer. If it's a meditation practice, another Christian faith, a Buddhist practice, whatever, take part in it. But give that gift to yourself as a reward for putting up with what you have to.
Thoughts?
Mok is a good teacher on how to deal with the things that you cannot abide with in the church, he helped me during my difficult times.
I do have one suggestion, though. Perhaps it might help (and it might do just the opposite, but in the end I think it would do good once you finally left if that is what you ultimately decide to do) if you do not limit your spiritual quest solely to the church. Attend another church some sundays, perhaps go to church with fam every other sunday, and on off sundays go to another church if you wish, or stay home. Read up on other faiths, do something that feeds you spiritually, that's very important, because if you're just going through the motions, and you do not feel that you're being taken care of, then you'll just suffer. If it's a meditation practice, another Christian faith, a Buddhist practice, whatever, take part in it. But give that gift to yourself as a reward for putting up with what you have to.
Thoughts?
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
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_Inconceivable
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 3405
- Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:44 am
Seven,
I'm in an equally distressing position at this time and it's pretty tough.
Regardless whether you begin to attend church, those that suspect you of being a wolf in sheep's clothing have no reason to change their opinion of you. Concentrate on those friends that accept you for the good in you. Personally, I believe integrity matters, and without it you will be unhappy.
I would suggest to discuss as much of the issue as your spouse will let you. You both need to agree to and set some bounderies. He needs to watch your back and support you in your most righteous desires. You need to know how willing he is to defending your integrity to everyone including his mother. In my opinion, it's his duty to put his mother in her place. Those are very dark and ignorant words coming from such an "enlightened" child of Christ (your MIL). If he sees you for who you are and who you want to be, instead of simply being a clan member, you may have a long and happy life together. Marriages work when we share the same ideals and standards. These concepts generally transcend religious denomination.
The last time I attended church was the week after my son's homecoming in April. I have spoken of my disolusionment to the EQ president (who is my familys hometeacher), the bishop and stake president. I gave my recommend back to the SP about a year ago. They have avoided me for about 8 months now. They just don't know what to do. They are confounded. This is all new to each of them - disaffection void of unrighteousness. I am the same, I just don't believe the lie.
I will never go back. I cannot. I will not.
On a side note, I have 3 clients that I have become good friends with over the past 4-5 years. They are deeply Christian. One is a pastor. All have become disaffected with organized religeon. They walk their talk. It is interesting that in speaking with them, I get a feeling of hope (and acceptance) that I just have not felt in the long talks with the Mormon leaders over the last 2 years. Discussions with the leaders tend to revolve around a reminder of duty and obligation. There is little talk of Christianity or Christ. Just this nebulous platitude they call "the gospel". When visiting with my friends, the conversations are fundamentally about being a follower of Christ - living in a way to emulate a Christlike life.
It has been dreadfully difficult on my family and marriage.
(Edited for spelling and clarity)
I'm in an equally distressing position at this time and it's pretty tough.
Regardless whether you begin to attend church, those that suspect you of being a wolf in sheep's clothing have no reason to change their opinion of you. Concentrate on those friends that accept you for the good in you. Personally, I believe integrity matters, and without it you will be unhappy.
I would suggest to discuss as much of the issue as your spouse will let you. You both need to agree to and set some bounderies. He needs to watch your back and support you in your most righteous desires. You need to know how willing he is to defending your integrity to everyone including his mother. In my opinion, it's his duty to put his mother in her place. Those are very dark and ignorant words coming from such an "enlightened" child of Christ (your MIL). If he sees you for who you are and who you want to be, instead of simply being a clan member, you may have a long and happy life together. Marriages work when we share the same ideals and standards. These concepts generally transcend religious denomination.
The last time I attended church was the week after my son's homecoming in April. I have spoken of my disolusionment to the EQ president (who is my familys hometeacher), the bishop and stake president. I gave my recommend back to the SP about a year ago. They have avoided me for about 8 months now. They just don't know what to do. They are confounded. This is all new to each of them - disaffection void of unrighteousness. I am the same, I just don't believe the lie.
I will never go back. I cannot. I will not.
On a side note, I have 3 clients that I have become good friends with over the past 4-5 years. They are deeply Christian. One is a pastor. All have become disaffected with organized religeon. They walk their talk. It is interesting that in speaking with them, I get a feeling of hope (and acceptance) that I just have not felt in the long talks with the Mormon leaders over the last 2 years. Discussions with the leaders tend to revolve around a reminder of duty and obligation. There is little talk of Christianity or Christ. Just this nebulous platitude they call "the gospel". When visiting with my friends, the conversations are fundamentally about being a follower of Christ - living in a way to emulate a Christlike life.
It has been dreadfully difficult on my family and marriage.
(Edited for spelling and clarity)
Last edited by Guest on Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Inconceivable wrote:When visiting with my friends, the conversations are fundamentally about being a follower of Christ - living in a way to emulate a Christlike life.
Even those stuck in a prisoner of war camp situation can bring this approach to their own table. Viktor Frankel has suggested that bringing your own meaning of existence along with you can help get you through many earthly difficulties.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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_CaliforniaKid
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 4247
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:47 am
Hi Seven,
I agree with everyone that if you do return to church, you need everyone to understand that you do so as a non-believer trying to support her family. Your personal integrity is important. You will actually damage people's trust in you if they conclude you're being dishonest about your belief. I also agree with Inconceivable that you need to talk with your husband about this. Express to him your fears, frustrations and insecurities. It is his responsibility to put his mother in her place. Even if at some level he agrees with her, her insensitivity to your plight is absurd. The Mormon God should strike her with lightning. I think that if you allow yourself to be really vulnerable with your husband, he will feel protective and will fulfill his duty to you. Not that I know your husband... I just know how guys' thought processes tend to work.
I presume your husband knows your reasons for not believing anymore. That knowledge can generate understanding, even if not agreement.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you,
-CK
I agree with everyone that if you do return to church, you need everyone to understand that you do so as a non-believer trying to support her family. Your personal integrity is important. You will actually damage people's trust in you if they conclude you're being dishonest about your belief. I also agree with Inconceivable that you need to talk with your husband about this. Express to him your fears, frustrations and insecurities. It is his responsibility to put his mother in her place. Even if at some level he agrees with her, her insensitivity to your plight is absurd. The Mormon God should strike her with lightning. I think that if you allow yourself to be really vulnerable with your husband, he will feel protective and will fulfill his duty to you. Not that I know your husband... I just know how guys' thought processes tend to work.
I presume your husband knows your reasons for not believing anymore. That knowledge can generate understanding, even if not agreement.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you,
-CK