Was Emma an abused wife?

[_Ray A]

The FLDS survived and have grown substantially.

Yes, but with how much abuse?

The abuse in FLDS polygamy is real abuse, and quite a contrast to LDS polygamy. Polygamy itself, although it can be practiced with success, as FLDS have shown, is still open to unconscionable abuse. No respectable modern day Church/religion in western society, which appeals to "family values", can survive this.

[_Polygamy Porter]

The FLDS survived and have grown substantially.

Yes, but with how much abuse?

The abuse in FLDS polygamy is real abuse, and quite a contrast to LDS polygamy. Polygamy itself, although it can be practiced with success, as FLDS have shown, is still open to unconscionable abuse. No respectable modern day Church/religion in western society, which appeals to "family values", can survive this.

Depends on how you define abuse.

[_Ray A]

Depends on how you define abuse.

From Business Week:

While many people view polygamy as a crime without victims, Tapestry's members say the practice is fundamentally degrading and rife with rape, incest, and abuse. With Salt Lake City hosting the 2002 Winter Olympics, Utah is eager to show that it no longer tolerates the second of the twin evils, as 19th century reformers called slavery and polygamy. ''They practice all kinds of things we try to clean up in Third World countries,'' says Democratic State Senator Ronald Allen. ''Early polygamy attracted feverishly religious people. Now, it's pedophiles and abusers.''

Former plural wives say some polygs claim to be lineal descendants of Jesus and other Biblical figures and practice incest to keep blood lines pure. They marry nieces and half-sisters.

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_37/b3698209.htm

I could link the documented evidence of numerous cases of abuse, which including physical beatings, kidnap and rape, but I presume you've read all this.

[_Polygamy Porter]

Depends on how you define abuse.

From Business Week:

While many people view polygamy as a crime without victims, Tapestry's members say the practice is fundamentally degrading and rife with rape, incest, and abuse. With Salt Lake City hosting the 2002 Winter Olympics, Utah is eager to show that it no longer tolerates the second of the twin evils, as 19th century reformers called slavery and polygamy. ''They practice all kinds of things we try to clean up in Third World countries,'' says Democratic State Senator Ronald Allen. ''Early polygamy attracted feverishly religious people. Now, it's pedophiles and abusers.''

Former plural wives say some polygs claim to be lineal descendants of Jesus and other Biblical figures and practice incest to keep blood lines pure. They marry nieces and half-sisters.

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_37/b3698209.htm

I could link the documented evidence of numerous cases of abuse, which including physical beatings, kidnap and rape, but I presume you've read all this.

Keep in mind the FLDS have different standards than the outside world. What you consider to be immoral differs from them. Look back when Joseph Smith was bedding teen girls... According to his defenders it was OK. Perhaps the FLDS still live in that simplistic age.

Additionally, while I am not denying there is abuse in the FLDS, I doubt it is rampant. The report you linked is seven years old..

There is abuse in monogamous marriages also, so should we stop that as well?

The mainstream LDS church does not seem to be too bothered by the allegations of abuse in the polygamous FLDS, just look at how little money and resources have they given to the cause. Is that a sign it is OK or that they really don't care to clean up their mess? They seem more interested in the Mc'morman Mall of Amo'erica than stopping the supposed abuse within the FLDS.

[_Jason Bourne]

So then, it appears that you are painted into a corner.

Who? Me?

Typical feelings for a man of your age and family situation.

What age and what situation?

Life is what happens when you make plans.

That is certainly true.

[_Jason Bourne]

The FLDS survived and have grown substantially

.


Substantially? What, 40,000 members if even?

[_Ray A]

Keep in mind the FLDS have different standards than the outside world. What you consider to be immoral differs from them. Look back when Joseph Smith was bedding teen girls... According to his defenders it was OK. Perhaps the FLDS still live in that simplistic age.

I don't think all of his defenders thought it was okay. They defended him in many things, but polygamy caused many apostasies. David Whitmer, Book of Mormon witness, was one of Joseph's greatest critics in this regard.

There is abuse in monogamous marriages also, so should we stop that as well?

But how many times is this mentioned? And lo and behold, in many non-LDS families. The worst offenders in Oz are Aboriginal men, in Aboriginal communities. Some of them are called "Elders". Domestic violence and emotional abuse is a serious problem in society-at-large. And what happened when the Catholic Church clamped down on sexually abusive priests? There was a "serious shortage" of candidates for the priesthood.

The mainstream LDS church does not seem to be too bothered by the allegations of abuse in the polygamous FLDS how much money and resources have they given to the cause?. Is that a sign it is fine or that they really don't care to clean up their mess? They seem more interested in the Mc'morman Mall of Amo'erica than stopping the supposed abuse within the FLDS.

I have written elsewhere I believe more could and should be done. In America I think you have a religious freedom clause. If this happened in Oz they would be outlawed, as was the "Little Pebble", a break away Catholic polygamist who was engaging in sex with underage girls.

His website: http://www.shoal.net.au/~mwoa/

More about him: http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

Bear in mind that the law in Oz prohibits sex with any girl under 16, even if the girl consents.

[_Mercury]

The FLDS survived and have grown substantially.

Yes, but with how much abuse?

The abuse in FLDS polygamy is real abuse, and quite a contrast to LDS polygamy. Polygamy itself, although it can be practiced with success, as FLDS have shown, is still open to unconscionable abuse. No respectable modern day Church/religion in western society, which appeals to "family values", can survive this.

Yes, tool, because when those in the official moron church practiced the same religion that the FLDS practice now it was not abuse.

This post is typical of you ray. Swerve and dodge aroud the issue knocking down the idea as long as the LDS corporation does not end up the bad guy.

Too bad that in the process your integrity is shot to hell.

[_Ray A]

Yes, tool, because when those in the official moron church practiced the same religion that the FLDS practice now it was not abuse.

You obviously can't see the difference. Again, no surprise. Remember, you're married to one of those "morons".

This post is typical of you ray. Swerve and dodge aroud the issue knocking down the idea as long as the LDS corporation does not end up the bad guy.

Apparently the only "good guys" in your book are atheists, and anyone who condemns religion or a belief in God. Too bad the former Soviet Union has dissolved. You would have made a great KGB anti-religion law enforcer there. But there's always communist China. If you had power, of any sort, in any country, I would fear for that country. Thankfully you're only a little squealing mouse in a country founded by great men, thinkers, and lovers of liberty. You might do well to study Jefferson, who could both praise and criticise religion. You sound like Chairman Mao on steroids.

Too bad that in the process your integrity is shot to hell.

If you ever thought I had integrity - I'd seriously be worried.

[_Mercury]

If you ever thought I had integrity - I'd seriously be worried.

I think you and I both know that integrity and you are strangers.