http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjDJs7wvGLg
Very good overview of the history and doctrine as it was created, hid, publicized, hid again, and the manifesto which created the beginning of the fundamentalist LDS group.
New video explaining Mormon polygamy on Youtube
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_Polygamy Porter
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_Roger Morrison
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Thanks for the link. It didn't pause for me when I played it but the quality of the picture wasn't very clear.
It's a long video so I haven't finished watching it yet. My thoughts this far made the PBS special come to mind "The Mormons" by Helen Whiteny. (PBS has replayed it a few times this month) Why she didn't show the reality and cruelty of polygamy in her documentary really bothered me and I know it also troubled the women who were victims of it. She interviewed these women who were like the "Big Love" show where they all appeared to be the perfect, happy polygamous family. She should have also interviewed the women who have left that lifestyle and were free to be honest about their experience. Helen Whitney also didn't even mention that mainstream LDS still believe in an afterlife of polygamy. This video makes great points about which group is in apostacy of what Joseph Smith restored but Helen Whitney never made these points in her show.
I am not talking about the abuses of incest or rape.
I am referring to the abuse of knowing your husband is making love to another woman in the name of God. The section of this video that was painful to watch was "Living the principle." For those that don't believe Emma was "abused", you need to see this.
My only criticism so far is when they cut to 4 or 5 different people saying the same word over and over. The depiction of Joseph being shot in Carthage could have been left out.
It's a long video so I haven't finished watching it yet. My thoughts this far made the PBS special come to mind "The Mormons" by Helen Whiteny. (PBS has replayed it a few times this month) Why she didn't show the reality and cruelty of polygamy in her documentary really bothered me and I know it also troubled the women who were victims of it. She interviewed these women who were like the "Big Love" show where they all appeared to be the perfect, happy polygamous family. She should have also interviewed the women who have left that lifestyle and were free to be honest about their experience. Helen Whitney also didn't even mention that mainstream LDS still believe in an afterlife of polygamy. This video makes great points about which group is in apostacy of what Joseph Smith restored but Helen Whitney never made these points in her show.
I am not talking about the abuses of incest or rape.
I am referring to the abuse of knowing your husband is making love to another woman in the name of God. The section of this video that was painful to watch was "Living the principle." For those that don't believe Emma was "abused", you need to see this.
My only criticism so far is when they cut to 4 or 5 different people saying the same word over and over. The depiction of Joseph being shot in Carthage could have been left out.
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_silentkid
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Roger Morrison wrote:Hi PP, thanks for the site. But it doesn't seem to broadast very well. Plays for a couple of seconds, pauses, plays, pauses etc.etc... Any ideas for remedy? I notice this with some other videos but not all???? Warm regards, Roger
The best remedy for this is to pause the video when it initially starts playing and wait for a few minutes while it loads. The wait time all depends on your connection speed and computer set-up.
One of the big takeaways for me from watching this whole thing is just how convinced the various people were who came from the polygamous groups, that their leader was the "real prophet", and that all the others weren't. They were convinced down to the marrow in their bones. The fear of being wrong when they finally left was almost palpable in this movie. That one woman talking about how for years and years after she left she had this nagging doubt that she might be wrong and her former polygamous sect might be right, and she'd be losing out on her chance at Heaven and instead going straight to hell as an apostate from the truth.
This should be enough to give pause to anyone who is in a church they are convinced is true. It is obvious to me, watching this, that your standard LDS church member's testimony, and conviction that the LDS church is true, isn't any more "real", or any more powerful, than all these polygamous sect members' testimonies are. There's not a dime's worth of difference, IMHO. And there's a good reason for this. It's because their really isn't a dime's worth of difference. It all comes down to mental conditioning, confirmation bias, enthusiasm, charismatic leaders, and such things. These people, like most TBMs, were raised to believe this stuff was true, and their leaders really did have God's authority, and that they really must obey them, and so forth.
What any TBM should be asking themselves is this. What is so special about me that I can be sure that I'm not just as deluded in my beliefs as these people were (obviously, to a TBM) deluded in theirs?
This goes back to the argument I've tried to make on MAD over and over again. If you take a room with 100 true believers taken from some random sample from around the world, you might have one Mormon in that group. That Mormon must be convinced that the other 99 people in the room are wrong, however convinced to the contrary each of these other believers may be. What must strike someone is this: it is apparently very easy to be convinced down to the very fibers of your being, the very marrow of your bones, that what you believe is the truth, and yet be wrong about that. If it is true for the other 99 people in the room, then how do you know that it's not also true about you? What makes you so special, that you dodge the bullet of false belief when it's apparently such a strong trap, into which almost everyone else who is a true believer in some religion has fallen?
This should be enough to give pause to anyone who is in a church they are convinced is true. It is obvious to me, watching this, that your standard LDS church member's testimony, and conviction that the LDS church is true, isn't any more "real", or any more powerful, than all these polygamous sect members' testimonies are. There's not a dime's worth of difference, IMHO. And there's a good reason for this. It's because their really isn't a dime's worth of difference. It all comes down to mental conditioning, confirmation bias, enthusiasm, charismatic leaders, and such things. These people, like most TBMs, were raised to believe this stuff was true, and their leaders really did have God's authority, and that they really must obey them, and so forth.
What any TBM should be asking themselves is this. What is so special about me that I can be sure that I'm not just as deluded in my beliefs as these people were (obviously, to a TBM) deluded in theirs?
This goes back to the argument I've tried to make on MAD over and over again. If you take a room with 100 true believers taken from some random sample from around the world, you might have one Mormon in that group. That Mormon must be convinced that the other 99 people in the room are wrong, however convinced to the contrary each of these other believers may be. What must strike someone is this: it is apparently very easy to be convinced down to the very fibers of your being, the very marrow of your bones, that what you believe is the truth, and yet be wrong about that. If it is true for the other 99 people in the room, then how do you know that it's not also true about you? What makes you so special, that you dodge the bullet of false belief when it's apparently such a strong trap, into which almost everyone else who is a true believer in some religion has fallen?
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Sethbag wrote:One of the big takeaways for me from watching this whole thing is just how convinced the various people were who came from the polygamous groups, that their leader was the "real prophet", and that all the others weren't. They were convinced down to the marrow in their bones. The fear of being wrong when they finally left was almost palpable in this movie. That one woman talking about how for years and years after she left she had this nagging doubt that she might be wrong and her former polygamous sect might be right, and she'd be losing out on her chance at Heaven and instead going straight to hell as an apostate from the truth.
This should be enough to give pause to anyone who is in a church they are convinced is true. It is obvious to me, watching this, that your standard LDS church member's testimony, and conviction that the LDS church is true, isn't any more "real", or any more powerful, than all these polygamous sect members' testimonies are. There's not a dime's worth of difference, IMHO. And there's a good reason for this. It's because their really isn't a dime's worth of difference. It all comes down to mental conditioning, confirmation bias, enthusiasm, charismatic leaders, and such things. These people, like most TBMs, were raised to believe this stuff was true, and their leaders really did have God's authority, and that they really must obey them, and so forth.
What any TBM should be asking themselves is this. What is so special about me that I can be sure that I'm not just as deluded in my beliefs as these people were (obviously, to a TBM) deluded in theirs?
This goes back to the argument I've tried to make on MAD over and over again. If you take a room with 100 true believers taken from some random sample from around the world, you might have one Mormon in that group. That Mormon must be convinced that the other 99 people in the room are wrong, however convinced to the contrary each of these other believers may be. What must strike someone is this: it is apparently very easy to be convinced down to the very fibers of your being, the very marrow of your bones, that what you believe is the truth, and yet be wrong about that. If it is true for the other 99 people in the room, then how do you know that it's not also true about you? What makes you so special, that you dodge the bullet of false belief when it's apparently such a strong trap, into which almost everyone else who is a true believer in some religion has fallen?
When I was just a Chapel Mormon, sometimes I would catch a news segment on the FLDS church. It was a bit rattling to my testimony when these women were being helped by psychologists who tried to deconvert them from the cult. I realized that I had so much in common with these women who were being told they had been brainwashed into believing their church was true. Their fears of losing eternal families, going to Mormon hell, etc. are much the same as the fears that had been instilled in me as a mainstream Mormon. The younger girls looked terrified to leave and you could see the inner turmoil they had. It wasn't until I came to that crossroad of leaving the LDS church that I finally understood why they were not able to let it go so easily.