A different angle: Validity of mainstream Mormons

[_Polygamy Porter]

I think it would be more advisable to ask God if Wilford Woodruff was wrong. Otherwise by what standard do you judge apostasy?

That asking God thing apparently leads some people to one conclusion and others to another. Not a method with a good track record.
Don't FLDS ask God too?

*internet crickets chirping in the direction of Nehor*

If by obeying God you mean doing only what FEELS right, then yes, the track record sucks. You're engaged in a twisted form of self-worship when God ends up liking everything you like and disliking everything you dislike.

I find it bracing and refreshing when God tells me I'm wrong regularly and often.

(Note to PP: I think you need to feed those crickets)

Nehor, how do you feel about the FLDS?

Do you think they are wrong? Why?

[_Gazelam]

The temple ceremony, temple marriage, and garments are products of Joseph attempting to keep polygamy hidden.

What in the three shades of purple hell are you talking about?

Ever visit these threads sober?

[_harmony]

The temple ceremony, temple marriage, and garments are products of Joseph attempting to keep polygamy hidden.

What in the three shades of purple hell are you talking about?

Ever visit these threads sober?

Gaz, you might want to read up on the history of LDS polygamy, and Joseph's many attempts to keep it secret before you post. The way he manipulated people was appalling.

[_Daniel Peterson]

As an outsider the LDS religion seems very, very, very complicated. I find that non-LDS Christians are simpler in their beliefs and I tend to like simpler things when it comes to religiosity.

I like the core principles of pretty much all of the world's religions. As someone reading and trying to understand LDS I can't say I understand the core principles of LDS. If it was merely just to follow Christ then I could say I understood somewhat... but it seems as if there is so much more required of a member than just Christ. But I may be wrong.

I suspect that your perception of Mormonism is a function of the way you choose to learn about it.

If you had first encountered Christianity via boards where critics and believers debated matters like the hypostatic union, the character of Renaissance popes, rival ecclesiologies, the "persistence of the saints," predestination versus freedom of the will, unconditional election, Christian views on pacifism and just-war theory, the Inquisition, monergism versus synergism, Christianity and slavery, dispensationalism, total depravity and Pelagianism, Jewish-Christian relations, ontological trinitarianism, the Crusades, different models of the inspiration of scripture, Arminian versus Calvinistic views of the atonement, solafidianism, and etc., and etc., I doubt that you would perceive the issues swirling about mainstream historical Christianity as altogether "simple."

[_Jason Bourne]

As an outsider the LDS religion seems very, very, very complicated. I find that non-LDS Christians are simpler in their beliefs and I tend to like simpler things when it comes to religiosity.

I like the core principles of pretty much all of the world's religions. As someone reading and trying to understand LDS I can't say I understand the core principles of LDS. If it was merely just to follow Christ then I could say I understood somewhat... but it seems as if there is so much more required of a member than just Christ. But I may be wrong.

I suspect that your perception of Mormonism is a function of the way you choose to learn about it.

If you had first encountered Christianity via boards where critics and believers debated matters like the hypostatic union, the character of Renaissance popes, rival ecclesiologies, the "persistence of the saints," predestination versus freedom of the will, unconditional election, Christian views on pacifism and just-war theory, the Inquisition, monergism versus synergism, Christianity and slavery, dispensationalism, total depravity and Pelagianism, Jewish-Christian relations, ontological trinitarianism, the Crusades, different models of the inspiration of scripture, Arminian versus Calvinistic views of the atonement, solafidianism, and etc., and etc., I doubt that you would perceive the issues swirling about mainstream historical Christianity as altogether "simple."

I have to say amen to that!

[_Polygamy Porter]

As an outsider the LDS religion seems very, very, very complicated. I find that non-LDS Christians are simpler in their beliefs and I tend to like simpler things when it comes to religiosity.

I like the core principles of pretty much all of the world's religions. As someone reading and trying to understand LDS I can't say I understand the core principles of LDS. If it was merely just to follow Christ then I could say I understood somewhat... but it seems as if there is so much more required of a member than just Christ. But I may be wrong.

I suspect that your perception of Mormonism is a function of the way you choose to learn about it.

If you had first encountered Christianity via boards where critics and believers debated matters like the hypostatic union, the character of Renaissance popes, rival ecclesiologies, the "persistence of the saints," predestination versus freedom of the will, unconditional election, Christian views on pacifism and just-war theory, the Inquisition, monergism versus synergism, Christianity and slavery, dispensationalism, total depravity and Pelagianism, Jewish-Christian relations, ontological trinitarianism, the Crusades, different models of the inspiration of scripture, Arminian versus Calvinistic views of the atonement, solafidianism, and etc., and etc., I doubt that you would perceive the issues swirling about mainstream historical Christianity as altogether "simple."

Curelome dung.

Being a christian is quite simple.. just believe in the Bible and Christ and his teachings. Some feel you need a water baptism other don't.

Being a Mormon is very complicated... The concrete required steps:
-Belief that Joseph Smith was a divine prophet of god
-Belief that Mormonism is the only divine religion of god(unlike general Christianity)
-Belief that the Book of Mormon, D&C, and PoGP are divine scriptures from God
-Obey the word of wisdom, not as it is written, but as it has been "interpreted over the years by the "brethren"
-Baptism
-Priesthood for males
-Full tithe paying
-Belief that Joseph Smith and was, and Hinckley is a divine prophet of god
-Obey the word of wisdom, not as it is written, but as it has been "interpreted over the years by the "brethren"
-Temple endowments
-Never talking about the temple ceremony
-Full tithe paying
-Requirement to wear magic temple undies 24/7/365
-Obey the word of wisdom, not as it is written, but as it has been "interpreted over the years by the "brethren"
-Belief that Joseph Smith and was, and Hinckley is a divine prophet of god
-Marriage in the temple to the opposite sex
-Requirement to wear magic temple undies 24/7/365

Requirements socially foisted upon the members:
-Obey the word of wisdom, not as it is written, but as it has been "interpreted over the years by the "brethren"
-Necrodunking(baptisms for the dead)
-Seminary for kids(4 years)
-Obey the word of wisdom, not as it is written, but as it has been "interpreted over the years by the "brethren"
-Mission(for males)
-Church attendance
-Temple work for the dead
-Birthing children
-Temple work for the dead
-Church attendance
-Callings
-Temple work for the dead
-Home and visit teaching
-Callings
-Temple work for the dead
-Obey the word of wisdom, not as it is written, but as it has been "interpreted over the years by the "brethren"
-Church attendance
-Raising all of your kids to be devote believing members
-Boys serving missions
-Boys and girls getting married in the temple, girls married to RMs
-Church attendance
-Obey the word of wisdom, not as it is written, but as it has been "interpreted over the years by the "brethren"

I am sure there is a few others I have missed...

[_Jersey Girl]

The temple ceremony, temple marriage, and garments are products of Joseph attempting to keep polygamy hidden.

What in the three shades of purple hell are you talking about?

Ever visit these threads sober?

What he says there is true. For what reason do you think the penalties were developed? Why do you think the first temple marriages included Joseph's "inner circe"? Why do you think there was an "inner circle"? Why do you think Joseph instructed his guys to remove their garments before going to Carthage jail?

I typically avoid attempts to engage TBM's regarding the temple, you opened the door by responding with a question. Now, I'm walking through it.

Finally, do you think the idea of Celestial Marriage was an original revelation introduced by Joseph Smith?

Jersey Girl

[_Polygamy Porter]

The temple ceremony, temple marriage, and garments are products of Joseph attempting to keep polygamy hidden.

What in the three shades of purple hell are you talking about?

Ever visit these threads sober?

What he says there is true. For what reason do you think the penalties were developed? Why do you think the first temple marriages included Joseph's "inner circe"? Why do you think there was an "inner circle"? Why do you think Joseph instructed his guys to remove their garments before going to Carthage jail?

I typically avoid attempts to engage TBM's regarding the temple, you opened the door by responding with a question. Now, I'm walking through it.

Finally, do you think the idea of Celestial Marriage was an original revelation introduced by Joseph Smith?

Jersey Girl

I hear internet crickets chirping in the city of lost wages.... How about it Gaz? HUH?

Pfft! He won't talk about that because he is not allowed and really knows nothing about it outside of what little he was told in the chapel.

[_Jason Bourne]

As an outsider the LDS religion seems very, very, very complicated. I find that non-LDS Christians are simpler in their beliefs and I tend to like simpler things when it comes to religiosity.

I like the core principles of pretty much all of the world's religions. As someone reading and trying to understand LDS I can't say I understand the core principles of LDS. If it was merely just to follow Christ then I could say I understood somewhat... but it seems as if there is so much more required of a member than just Christ. But I may be wrong.

I suspect that your perception of Mormonism is a function of the way you choose to learn about it.

If you had first encountered Christianity via boards where critics and believers debated matters like the hypostatic union, the character of Renaissance popes, rival ecclesiologies, the "persistence of the saints," predestination versus freedom of the will, unconditional election, Christian views on pacifism and just-war theory, the Inquisition, monergism versus synergism, Christianity and slavery, dispensationalism, total depravity and Pelagianism, Jewish-Christian relations, ontological trinitarianism, the Crusades, different models of the inspiration of scripture, Arminian versus Calvinistic views of the atonement, solafidianism, and etc., and etc., I doubt that you would perceive the issues swirling about mainstream historical Christianity as altogether "simple."

Curelome dung.

Being a christian is quite simple.. just believe in the Bible and Christ and his teachings. Some feel you need a water baptism other don't.

.

Are you able to be any more stupid? It is clear that you know nothing about Christianity. Course many Christians don't either. Peterson listed a few issues that Christians wrangle about and he could have written pages. How about rebutting what he wrote instead of ranting like the village idoit.

[_barrelomonkeys]

As an outsider the LDS religion seems very, very, very complicated. I find that non-LDS Christians are simpler in their beliefs and I tend to like simpler things when it comes to religiosity.

I like the core principles of pretty much all of the world's religions. As someone reading and trying to understand LDS I can't say I understand the core principles of LDS. If it was merely just to follow Christ then I could say I understood somewhat... but it seems as if there is so much more required of a member than just Christ. But I may be wrong.

I suspect that your perception of Mormonism is a function of the way you choose to learn about it.

If you had first encountered Christianity via boards where critics and believers debated matters like the hypostatic union, the character of Renaissance popes, rival ecclesiologies, the "persistence of the saints," predestination versus freedom of the will, unconditional election, Christian views on pacifism and just-war theory, the Inquisition, monergism versus synergism, Christianity and slavery, dispensationalism, total depravity and Pelagianism, Jewish-Christian relations, ontological trinitarianism, the Crusades, different models of the inspiration of scripture, Arminian versus Calvinistic views of the atonement, solafidianism, and etc., and etc., I doubt that you would perceive the issues swirling about mainstream historical Christianity as altogether "simple."

Ooops, I missed your comment Dr. Peterson. I hadn't come back to this thread.
If you ever saw any of my posts on MAD that concerned mainstream Christianity you would understand that I have a very limited knowledge of Christianity in general. It's just not something I spent a lot of time studying, or really was ever around much growing up. You're absolutely correct that if I had learned about mainstream Christianity via the boards (which is actually something I did at MAD, mostly following consigs posts) I would be very confused. I read what consig and others wrote that I found it all to be very perplexing.

When I stated that I liked it in a simpler format, I really meant that. I believe that God would not hide from me and make it confusing to know him... I hope that he allows us simple people to know him just as well as the learned. Perhaps if I had never come across these boards (yet in some ways I'm very thankful as it's really opened up questions and avenues of discovery) I would have never pursued anything of this sort at all. I had a very limited knowledge of anything relating to Christianity before I stumbled across MAD. I feel as though I understand Christ somewhat and have been reading the KJV New Testament and finding much comfort in that. I just am really confused about what the core principles of LDS are. Perhaps if I hadn't stumbled into the chaos of both boards (MAD is really quite confusing sometimes) I would view it as simpler. As confusing as it has been for me, it has given me the impetus to look inside and outside for something that I would never have done otherwise.