Is the statement "god exists" true?

[Guest]

I just had an epiphany!

I was walking up my stairs thinking about standing about in Japan (where I lived for a portion of my life and still visit) and yelling at the Japanese through a bull horn to not to go to the Shinto Shrine and how their religion is false. I thought about standing about telling anyone their religion is false and it seems so odd to me. THEN it dawned on me. :D Yes, it did!

All of you that were ex-LDs told others for years, as practicing LDS, that you had the truth of religion. You went from telling others of different religions that yours was the true religion to telling everyone that they do not have a true religion.

I grew up in a lot of different communities and respected all of the various cultures. I would never have dreamed of being an interloper and asserting that I was right and they were wrong. But it must come naturally to many of you that went on missions because that is what you were taught to do. Right?

Am I wrong? Newsflash, it was rude when you were a missionary. It's still rude.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Mercury, Sethbag,

I don't believe it is false comfort. If it comforts them then it comforts them. There is nothing false in that. Their belief is not false, their belief is a reality. They believe it. So what? I just don't understand why it matters. I don't believe and yet I don't take it as a personal affront if others do.

Sethbag, my husband is an atheist and talks about the "circle of life" too. He hums the lion king theme when I get too freaky in my agnosticism for him. :D

It probably boils down to being polite for me. I'm too polite to tell someone they're wrong in their religious beliefs. I just won't do it. I don't see the point in it.

I have to admit, I agree with this. I've often said that faith is just existential aspirin. If the goal is to "alleviate pain" then who cares how it happens? If the goal is to "find truth" then there's definitely an issue, but for pain relief, "faith" (however it's defined) seems to work for some people. Not me... but others, for sure.

My real beef with religion has to do with the way it truly harms people, not with how it helps people (although a case can be made that the current pain it masks could come back to bite you worse later... but I don't feel like developing that case at the moment). I tend to vascillate between not caring about it to wishing it was wiped from the Earth entirely.

OMG! We agree! *virtual high five*

[_Mercury]

To my sista in the south, what would be MORE comforting:

The belief that Marduk has your back in the afterlife or the belief that Jesus Christ has your back in the afterlife? What I'm getting at is that they are both fantasy, therefore tehy are equally comforting but equally contrived.

Hope this helps. In retrospect I think I'm just confusing myself further.

To me it doesn't matter what one believes in. I don't care if they believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (which happens to be my screensaver). I do NOT care! I just don't take it personally if someone takes comfort in something that I do not take comfort in.

I read early political tracts, quite a bit of them, and find myself lounging about wild eyed with contemplation sometimes. I love Thomas Paine and read political scientists and get euphoric. These early political philosophers bring comfort to me. Does that offend you? I am not offended that people find comfort in the Oogi Boogi Woogi Monster. I just don't care!

What I am assaulting with this and other threads is the majority opinion that faith is a good way to live ones life. Belief in the sun as a God helped humanity get through the ice age and other dramatic changes that defined us as a species. Its time to ditch that idea. Now I know how Luther felt with hammer and nails in hand.

The attack on faith needs to be ramped up. Maybe we have different takes on the damage caused by religion. i see religion as a social disease, a Meme that creates a niche for easy exploitation of others. But what line does one cross from beneficial delusion to dangerous Meme? Iislamofascism, christians bashing other christians for not sharing their chosen faith, etc can be cited to dispell the image of religion as peacebringer. I am sure the Hitler youth corps helped alot of young Germans just as the Boy Scouts do today. Specifically I am saying that utility does not justify the larger framework one places the context of "instruction/ceremony/ethos collection" into. The consequences of acting on belief comes along with the warm fuzzies. if yoiu see benefit in believing an imaginary friend I do not see why you do not accept christ into your heart so you too can get the same result. I'm not trying to be snide but instead am trying to illustrate that there is a point of no return once you see the man behind the curtain speaking for Oz.

I respect christians in their belief as I respect a child who states that "mr. fuzzlewart broke the lamp" and not the child. Its cute but in the end is a construct in their mind giving them false security the same way a morphine drip does.

Oh well
...ramble on...sing my song...round the world

[_Jason Bourne]

Furthermore, what is "truth"? What makes something true? What makes something false?

Can you prove god exists?

No I do not believe you can positively prove he exists.

As for proving a negative don't defense attorneys do this all the time. "I will prove that my client DID NOT murder so and so......"

[_barrelomonkeys]

What I am assaulting with this and other threads is the majority opinion that faith is a good way to live ones life. Belief in the sun as a God helped humanity get through the ice age and other dramatic changes that defined us as a species. Its time to ditch that idea. Now I know how Luther felt with hammer and nails in hand.

I don't see faith as an essential component to lead a good life. I believe people can be ethical, tolerant, and loving with out a belief in a God. you won't hear that from me.

The attack on faith needs to be ramped up. Maybe we have different takes on the damage caused by religion. I see religion as a social disease, a Meme that creates a niche for easy exploitation of others. But what line does one cross from beneficial delusion to dangerous Meme?

I would say the dangerous line is when you kill others because of that religion. ;)

Iislamofascism, christians bashing other christians for not sharing their chosen faith, etc can be cited to dispell the image of religion as peacebringer.

Absolutely. I don't talk about religion as being a peaceful solution to things. I understand it, and am comfortable with it, being a personal matter.

I am sure the Hitler youth corps helped alot of young Germans just as the Boy Scouts do today.

Ya know what? I sort of doubt that. :) There were lots of Jewish Germans that might disagree with that statement.

The consequences of acting on belief comes along with the warm fuzzies. if yoiu see benefit in believing an imaginary friend I do not see why you do not accept christ into your heart so you too can get the same result. I'm not trying to be snide but instead am trying to illustrate that there is a point of no return once you see the man behind the curtain speaking for Oz.

I think you are being snide, whether you're trying to or not. You're typing to someone that has never been a part of organized religion. Never had the warm fuzzies associated with a Church or anything of the sort. I've never had the curtain parted to reveal a fraud. I just don't care if someone else wants to keep that curtain closed. It does not impact me.

I respect christians in their belief as I respect a child who states that "mr. fuzzlewart broke the lamp" and not the child. Its cute but in the end is a construct in their mind giving them false security the same way a morphine drip does.

I respect individuals. There are many Christians that I dislike intensely. I especially dislike amoral Christians that are self righteous and tell me it's okay because they're Christians. There are people of many different faiths and lack of faith that I respect.

A morphine drip isn't false security. It takes the pain away. That is real Mercury.

Mercury, there will always be a force that sways the masses. Whether it be religion or state it can be used for harm. I am uncomfortable with organized religion.

I am not however uncomfortable with people of faith and seek to destroy their faith. I can not bring myself to do it. I have no desire to do so and find it abhorrent to do so. Sorry.

[_Mercury]

I am not however uncomfortable with people of faith and seek to destroy their faith. I can not bring myself to do it. I have no desire to do so and find it abhorrent to do so. Sorry.

I understand what you mean. Some of us are just more vocal than others. If I see inconsistency or hypocrisy i can't help calling them on it. Does this make me a bad person?

[_barrelomonkeys]

I am not however uncomfortable with people of faith and seek to destroy their faith. I can not bring myself to do it. I have no desire to do so and find it abhorrent to do so. Sorry.

I understand what you mean. Some of us are just more vocal than others. If I see inconsistency or hypocrisy I can't help calling them on it. Does this make me a bad person?

No Mercury, I think it makes you insensitive to other people. But you may have been taught that as a missionary. :)

[_Mercury]

I am not however uncomfortable with people of faith and seek to destroy their faith. I can not bring myself to do it. I have no desire to do so and find it abhorrent to do so. Sorry.

I understand what you mean. Some of us are just more vocal than others. If I see inconsistency or hypocrisy I can't help calling them on it. Does this make me a bad person?

No Mercury, I think it makes you insensitive to other people. But you may have been taught that as a missionary. :)

But you see Book of Mormon, this was just my belief. Why don't you respect me for my former belief? Hehe
;)

[_Sethbag]

To me it doesn't matter what one believes in. I don't care if they believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (which happens to be my screensaver). I do NOT care! I just don't take it personally if someone takes comfort in something that I do not take comfort in.

I don't take it personally if someone takes comfort in something that's false. On the other hand, I don't respect that, and I don't think it's anything people ought to strive for. And I do take offense when these same people attempt to force their false comfort on me, and to spread it around.

Do I get offended when someone has a cold? No, but I do get offended when that person who has the cold comes to the office to work, and then comes over to talk to me and coughs in my face. They might think having a cold is the most wonderful thing in the world, and that I ought to want to have it too, but that still will upset me, because I see it for what it is: an infectious disease which I'd rather not have.

[_barrelomonkeys]

But you see Book of Mormon, this was just my belief. Why don't you respect me for my former belief? Hehe
;)

I never said I respect people for their beliefs in god or lack of belief in a god. I believe I said the opposite of that.